Talk:Steve Jobs/Archive 1

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Where do I find Steve Jobs' email address??

Steve publicized steve at mac dot com when he rolled out iTools .Mac, and when he sends out company wide emails, they are from sjobs at apple dot com (Apple uses the convention of fist initial, last name for default email addresses.) Both addresses are most likely screened, and if you get a reply, it may or may not be from him. Hes Nikke 09:05, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC):

Nope, Steve reads his own e-mail. sjobs at apple dot com and sjobs at pixar dot com will both reach him.
the apple address is screened, I remember a while back a news story about someone having problems with a new Mac so they emailed him. In the story it said that his secretary passed on the message and he phoned them up to sort it out - which is why it made the news. I'm sure someone will be able to find the link. Matt Peacock 17:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Any thought to balancing...

Any thought to balancing the following "Described as an enfant terrible and mean-spirited, many have found him difficult to work with." with something like "Largely credited to turning AppleComputer back into a successful company."

Annual salary?

How is he a billionaire if he is paid only $1 per year??? SD6-Agent 04:54, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Steve gets major bonuses in the form of stock options and gifts (like a private jet) - he is also the CEO of Pixar who probably pays him a bit more than $1/year salary... $52/year. ;) Hes Nikke 09:05, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)
Also, it should be noted that the $1 salary was in addition to a generous gift of a corporate jet and other stuff. In fact, he actually gained the title of the highest paid CEO: http://www.macnn.com/news/20608:
He's a billionare cause he owns a lot of Pixar. And billionaires don't need salaries.
Why is his salary listed as $401,000+, then?
I definately think his salary should be listed as $1 it's a very nice gimmic! :) --Opspin 17:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

--Please enlighten us all by giving the reference source for the $401,000 annual salary figure. Thanks.


Steve Jobs is as greedy as any other American CEO who's face looks like money. Don't get your hopes up: he's not a philanthropist. -- Orz 01:27, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The previous comment expresses class bias inappropriate under Wikipedia's NPOV policy. I invite the writer to remove it.

I like how it's generally the unintelligent (those unable to grasp simple grammatical rules) that like to accuse large corporations of being greedy and evil.

Lisa

First daughter Lisa (after whom the Apple Lisa was named) really should be mentioned! - David Gerard 00:44, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

Who is the Mother of Lisa??? - just added to page by an anon. I had a copy of The Journey Is The Reward (paperback ISBN 155802378X, hardback ISBN 0673188647) in Australia, but not here in London. This talks at length about this time in Steve's life. Anyone got a copy to hand?
No, but she seems to go by "Lisa Brennan-Jobs". Dunno if she's hyphenating mom's name or a husband's (or if she's a madcap heiress with a penchant for double-barrelled surnames). - Nunh-huh 04:17, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

FastCompany reported that she fronted for the band "The Other brothers."

(See the article on main page)

Father

"An Egyptian Arab father (name unknown)". Unknown by who? Does his mother know? Was it dark? - Jerryseinfeld 23:29, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

We don't know. :-) Stan 22:09, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Who? Who doesn't know?--Jerryseinfeld 19:23, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
"We the readers and editors of Wikipedia". It's remarkable how many people are bothered by this one phrase - maybe his mother knows and is not saying, maybe everybody in the Jobs clan knows, maybe it really was dark. The information has simply not been published, nor has anybody even said whether 0, 1, 2, or 100 people know the name. So "(name unknown)" is correctly vague. Stan 22:42, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC
That information has never been publicly released. I assume that since Mr. Jobs has met his sister, Mona Simpson, who has the same father, that he knows. He's not telling as of this date. Alan 00:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

(See the article on main page)

Do somereal biographical and significance work, here

The bio section is pitifully inadequate. Personally, I'm not that familiar with Jobs, though I know he has made significant contributions - technically and business-wise. But I think that is not all. And besides, apart from brains and persistence, what led the man to be a pioneer in this computer field and what made him successful?

What is his vision? What is his philosophy? How did childhood and adolescent experiences open up the world of possibilities for him? What did he do for work and training before meeting big success ("the child is the father of the man"). What has he wanted to give to humanity??

Besides some of the business details, this article is unenlightening. On the bio level, it's like some superficial fanzine crap out of Us or People magazines.

I want to get familiar with who Mr. Jobs is, and this article does not yet do a lot for me. Best, J.R.

We've just been waiting for you to get busy and write it, since you clearly have a good idea of what needs to be added. Stan 22:09, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I would not have written what I did (above) if I felt I was in touch with the needed info. Steve Jobs' life is not a pet interest of mine, in the way that maybe some others' lives are. Others can probably do a better job with Jobs. But I would enjoy reading it, and other people probably would, as well.

But to point to a few articles in the Wikipedia that include the kind of content I think should be there, look at the articles on Buckminster Fuller, Amory Lovins, J.R.R. Tolkien, Karl Hess. Many others, too. J.R.

Just read through The second Coming of Steve Jobs, and it shades a little more light on his father: He was a Political Science Professor, who was of Middle eastern decent, so he probably wasn’t form the Middle East him self. Maybe that can be added to the article??

See note under "Father" above. (See the article on main page)

Non Objective

This love-fest for Steve Jobs is probably the most non-neutral article in the whole Wikipedia.

Can you give examples which parts are non-neutral? Your comment is probably the most non-informative statement in the whole Wikipedia. If you think I'm a Steve Jobs lover, look at my page contributions which are nothing related to Apple Computers or Steve Jobs. (did a minor edit for "The Incredibles" article ages ago but that's the only Steve Jobs-related article that I edited) --Anonymous Cow 02:18, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hey, if you don't like this article, go read about him somewhere else.

Too Much (apparently) Implied

... and not enough said.

We can look back and see that there has been a communications revolution, and that micro computers have been the means of this development. But this (Wikipedia) is an encyclopedia, and the point of articles is to inform, to spell things out.

For instance, the article says " Jobs lured John Sculley from Pepsi-Cola to run Apple, challenging him, "Do you want to just sell sugared water for the rest of your life, or do you want to "change the world"?" How did Jobs envision changing the world? Why did he believe this change would be a good thing?

Answering these sorts of embedded questions is what an encyclopedia article should do.

Not doing this just leaves everything smacking of fan club.

I say the above even though I have switched to a Mac and like it very much. But Wikipedia is no place for a fan club. -J.R.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "Do you want to just sell sugared water..." is a direct quote from Jobs himself. (In fact, I'm pretty sure it is: See [1] and [2]) --Tyler
Yep that's right Tyler. Matt Peacock 21:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
The quotation is recited by Mr. Sculley himself in an interview in the documentary "Triumph of the Nerds" (Robert X. Cringely, 1996, first aired on PBS) and can be found on the transcript webpage http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part3.html, in which Mr. Sculley recalls his meeting with Mr. Jobs: "And then he looked up at me and just stared at me with the stare that only Steve Jobs has and he said do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life or do you want to come with me and change the world and I just gulped because I knew I would wonder for the rest of my life what I would have missed."

permission, please

I feel the brief history/business venture split in this article is not a happy one. Would anyone object to a tasteful restructing? I am not looking to delete anything. -- Viajero 14:02, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. Stan 23:03, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Article on Steve Jobs

Hi. I read an article on Steve Jobs a few years ago, and it was absolutely devastating. Among other things, the author quoted Jobs saying "fuck 'em!" when reminded that Apple customers would be upset when Jobs pulled the plug on a vendor who was supplying customer support. What emerged from the article was a nasty, bullying person who actually makes Bill Gates look good by comparison. Problem is, I can't remember what the magazine was! I'd love to track down that article, but there have been so many written about him that typical reference tools are no good. It was in a wide-circulation magazine such as Esquire and probably written in the late 1990s but no later than 2003. Anyone know what the article/journal was??

Not sure if this is it, or gets you any closer to it, but here's a quote: "In his book, The Second Coming Of Steve Jobs, Alan Deutschman says that one of Jobs’s favorite saying is “f*** ‘Em”, when speaking about vendors, suppliers, competition, and customers." It's from an on-line article at : http://www.macnet2.com/more.php?id=A329_100_1_0 -J.R.

iCon - Divorce from Laurene?

Under Personal Life, editer cites iCon as covering Jobs's divorce from Laurene Jobs. The problem is, I'm almost positive they are still married and have been unable to find anything to the contrary. Can anyone confirm? Thanks. Bbatsell 06:09, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Apple's page on him says he's still married as of Dec 2004. I haven't read iCon, though. Uttaddmb 21:28, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Judging from the commencement address he gave at Stanford, they are still married. Since no one has provided a source, I'm going to remove the reference. If someone can provide one, please post here and re-instate it in the article. Bbatsell 14:18, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • User:217.155.116.125 has re-added this tidbit. If someone can provide a source, please do so, otherwise, please refrain from posting information with no factual basis to back it up. Bbatsell 29 June 2005 15:38 (UTC)

I havn't found Information to back this up either, be it on Apple's site, Pixar's Site, or even Laurene Jobs' Executive Profile online. I have seen no evidence of this, so I've changed the wording to his "Supposed" Divorce from Laurene", though I don't believe there is one. Pipiann 6 July 2005 21:13 (UTC)

However, the book originally covered his supposed divorce from Laurene, whereas this has been silently removed from copies currently on sale. Several online sources indicate that Jobs and Laurene are still married.
divorces are a matter of public record in California. If any judgement of divorce had been entered, we'd know. Upshot: it was never anything more than a rumor.

I've pulled the following bit about his maybe/maybe not divorce and the book. Do we have any sources that even back up the idea that it was in the book and then removed? I never noticed any reviews that mentioned this. Until we know one way or the other, I'd suggest this whole bit stays out. AlistairMcMillan 16:28, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

I have a prerelease, unedited proof of this book and don't see it anywhere, so this seems apocryphal. Jsnell 01:22, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Pictures on this site (http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryListing.asp?navtyp=gls=1=7==153641&nbc1=1) pretty much confirm that they are still married as of December 13, 2005. Jdude204 17:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The book must be false, Laurene Jobs was at the Apple NY cube store opening in 2006. — Wackymacs 18:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting steve jobs speech

Hi, I am absolutely positively completely crap at writing, but I thought I'd post the following on here: http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html and then say what I'm about to say which is that it includes some interesting information that I think could be used to flesh the article out. Also, we know he's a vegan, in that speech he talks about going to the local hare krishna temple, I find this interesting... one gets the impression he might have beliefs set in new age eastern philosophies because I've seen him use several ideas very much associated with them casually in other speeches.

Why are people insisting on changing the promotional/press release mugshot?

I don't about you guys but I perfer the 2000 press release mugshot compare to other photos people have submitted/replaced. The current one with the Associated Press copyright information on the right side of the image doesn't look good as the PR photo. --Chill Pill Bill 20:56, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not only that, but the AP image is almost certainly a copyvio (fair use is not a strong argument when other pictures are available), and will be deleted. Feel free to change the picture back. Stan 21:17, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
First reason is the very bad quality and angle perspective of this mugshot. Secondary, because it is quite old, and third because it is a copyvio. Quantis 10:44, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I could understand your opinions for the first two reasons. However, the third reason... The other two photos that people have replaced have questionable copyright issues while the Apple's press mugshot doesn't. From Image Use Agreement Subject to the terms of this Agreement, you may use the Image solely in whole for editorial use by press and/or industry analysts. This right to use is personal to you and is not transferable by you to another party. The Image cannot be used to promote or sell any product or technology (such as on advertising, brochures, book-covers, stock photos, t-shirts, or other promotional merchandise). You may not alter, or modify the Image, in whole or in part, for any reason.
Heck, the Bill Gates Wikipedia article use an old press photo of him, too. --Chill Pill Bill 17:16, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've moved the more recent pic to the lead and this "mugshot" to the early history section. Always use the most recent photo in the lead to give people a realistic image of the subject.

The 'most recent photo' that was being restored without justification was a copyrighted AP photo. The current one appears to be fine. Bbatsell 05:16, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Heh, I should have chosen a better word than a "mugshot." I guess portrait. :-P Didn't know why I started to think of the word mugshot for some reason. Anyways, I don't mind the AP photo being the lead in. (Chill Pill Bill) --Krystyn Dominik 03:13, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Baez Crack

I don't get the Baez crack: this seems like supposition unless there's a source (including Baez) who would state that Jobs was emulating Dylan instead of, you know, dating a famous and talented performer. --User:Glennf 09:48, 09 Jul 2005 (PDT)

- From "The Second Coming of Steve Jobs" page 37:

"Elizabeth Holmes* believed that Steve became the lover of Joan Baez in large measure because Baez had been the lover of Dylan."

  • (One of his closest friends from Reed College)
Mr. Jobs is a known Dylan fan, and often uses his music when demoing new versions of iTunes. I can easily believe the comment, given his appreciation for Dylan. Alan 00:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The price that Apple paid for NeXT is different from the Gil Amelio article

In this article it claims that NeXT was bought for 402 million dollars while the number in the Gil Amelio article is much higher.


- Someone has since edited the Amelio number and it reads $402 instead of $427 million.

- From "Apple Confidential 2.0" by Owen W. Linzmayer, page 266: "Although Apple agreed to pay $427 million for NeXT, it was hard to put a price on the public relations value of Jobs' return to the company he founded 20 years prior."

- From "The Second Coming of Steve Jobs" by Alan Deutschman, page 238: "As Christmas neared, they set a price of $430 million, astoundingly high for a failing company."


We might as well stay with $402 million until someone comes up with absolute proof of the correct figure.

The Apple-NeXT "deal" was an exchange-of-shares merger, not an acquisition for cash, so any valuation is interesting, somewhat inexact, and not an amount of money you will ever find in the legal documnets. The primary exchange of the deal was that NeXT shares were cancelled and Apple shares issued to the former NeXT holders. Those obsessed to have more detail can read the entire Apple-Next Merger Agreement at Apple-Next Merger Agreement

Arab father

I put back the Arab father bit because in fact he is periodically mentioned as an notable Arab-American, so the source of the Arab descent is relevant, plus not everybody in Egypt is Arab (could be Turkish or Nubian). Stan 05:30, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

- See note above under 'Father'.

- Steve Jobs' biological father's name is Abdulfattah John Jandali. He immigrated to the US from Syria in 1952 (he was born in 1931).

Fredric Alan Maxwell, author of Bad Boy Ballmer has written what he calls an "authorized bio" (see his post on: http://www.mac360.com/index.php/mac360/comments/back_from_the_brink_five_days_with_tera/) of Jobs.

He has announced that he e-mailed him (Steve Jobs) a proposed chapter comparing his mercurial character to Jandali's. Jobs replied "Are you a nut case?" signing the oneliner "steve." The author then hit back at Steve saying "are you?". (As only Maxwell would know how that email was signed, presumably he entered this prior sentence).

Maxwell says that Jandali's "identity was outed, albeit obscurely, by Jobs’ sister, Mona Simpson". (see: http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=12575_0_4_0_C)


Vanity Fair Magazine was the first major publication ever to print the name of Jobs' birth father in October 2005. The strict US laws in respect to revealing details of the birth parents of adoptive children, resulting in many legal prosecutions in the fifties and the eighties, and still very much in effect in many states, were the main reason the name had not appeared in print in this connection before.

Adoption groups, where adult adopted children are still trying to loosen laws in order to discover their own birth parentage, have voiced their support for the magazine in printing just the name and not invading the privacy of the individual with further details.

But the name was out there. Lisa Brennan-Jobs, Steve's daughter, had published the patriarchal family name back in Fall 1999 in an article she wrote for the Harvard Advocate (though she spells it Jondali).

Enough.

Placeof Birth

I have changed the place of birth from Green Bay, Wisconsin to San Francisco, California (see: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051204/GPG0101/512040591/1207/GPGnews).

His sister, Mona Simpson, was born in Green Bay. But not Jobs. - douga6

thanks for the corrections, guys. --Yoasif 04:04, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


- I believe he wasn't born in Green Bay, but the article here on Wikipedia says he was. Which means either the [http:// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/worlds_most_powerful/3284811.stm BBC], the book iCon ^pdf, this book, several others, and off course CNN are wrong OR he wasn't born in Green Bay like WikiFanatic states. I could probably find out somehow, maybe by checking out the necessary information from the California Office of Vital Records (like the mentioned article did). Either convince me that this man was born in Green Bay by using certifiable references (hereby proving all the previously mentioned sources forgot to do some serious fact-checking), or state that this man was born in freaking San Francisco like so many others seem to believe. Oh and now suddenly nobody wants to pu(n)cture a hole in the universe? --Bruce 18:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


--California Office of Vital Records show he was indeed born in San Francisco in February, 1955. I corrected main article but someone changed it back to Green Bay. If you want it in his own words, see Smithsonian Oral History (http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/comphist/sj1.html#tools) - douga6

Biased entry?

This article seems biased to me, as it mentions almost none of the negative aspects of Steve Job's life. I think this article should be more balanced. A few examples of negative issues that seem as though they would be mentioned in more detail:

1. His ruthless managerial practices as an extremely demanding manager. He would berate employees, forcing them to work 80+ hours per week and abusing them mentally.

2. His outright refusal to recognize his biological daughter for years. He refused to pay a single dime of child support to his daughter's unwed mother even after Job's took his company public and became a deca-millionaire.

3. Just as he accuses Microsoft of "copying" or on occasion "stealing" Mac, he did the same from Xerox.

I am not out to get Steve Jobs, but none of this information (especially the information about Lisa) is mentioned, and that makes it appear as though this were more of a fanboy article rather than an encyclopedic entry. Unsigned contribution by Buffettjr

If you can find viable sources to validate all of these claims, then I doubt you'll find much opposition. Bbatsell 22:39, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
The first two have been in just about every book written on Jobs in the past 25 years, and should be included. The third one is more problematic. Will amend when I get time. ianbetteridge
Number three is nonsense. Apple paid for its engineers to visit Xerox in stock options, that Xerox later sold for a few million dollars. Pirates of Silicon Valley is entertaining but please don't think for a second that it is anywhere close to accurate. AlistairMcMillan 07:46, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh please. If you find displeasure in the article, it's within your power to edit judiciously and make it more balanced. Doing a "post and run" is pointless, since you've added no new content except to complain in the discussion section.

Just a primer posting before I start editing the Steve Jobs entry:

While well-written, I feel that the bias of this article is clear. Jobs has a strong personality and is controversial and provocative for a reason. But by reading this article, it's as if he's never stepped on any toes or made a few mistakes. I'll put my money where my mouth is though. After some more research and linking, I'll be picking at the article, adding and editing where needed. Note I won't be deleting content, as I believe that both a favorable and unfavorable position on Steve Jobs should be presented ... Unsigned contribution by 67.169.61.57

iPod Nano???

I was just wondering if Steve Jobs was the one whome thought of the iPod Nano. If not, who did? Freddy Tsao

Apple typically don't reveal that much about the development of their products. As far as I know, the Time article is the closest we have on the development of the iPod nano. [3] If more is revealed it'll probably appear on iPod nano eventually. AlistairMcMillan 08:26, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

possible spam? can't delete

It says "HELLO, JAKE K" under Early years. Can't seem to get rid of it??!

Not present for me. Bbatsell 22:41, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Ctrl-F5 to force a refresh that ignores your cache, should clear it up Sherurcij 22:55, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Does the pronunciation thing make sense to anyone? I know how to say "Steve Paul Jobs" but I don't have a clue where to start with "/dʒoʊbz/". Is this vandalism? AlistairMcMillan 17:30, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

It 'makes sense', but is it correct? The IPA transcription (and it really needs to be flagged as such, rather than it just being assumed that people know what is meant by strange symbols within slashes) indicates a long O, "johbz". I've never heard anyone pronounce it that way - it's generally pronounced (to my knowledge) like the plural of the noun "job" (American English /dʒɑbz/, or British English /dʒɒbz/). Is there any authority for it being a long "O"? There's little point in having a phonetic transcription if it's pronounced exactly as it looks. Vilcxjo 01:30, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
In fact, I recall reading somewhere that Steve Jobs got annoyed at people for calling it "joebs", following the biblical pronunciation. That IPA is plainly wrong. It's pronounced the same as the word meaning multiple occupations. I will remove it. -- tooki 16:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Insanely Great

please cross-link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanely_great

Lasseter/Ive/Fadell

I'm pulling the "Some of his later success must also be attributed to three men" passage. What is this based on? Why these three men? Why not Avi Tevanian or Jon Rubinstein or Alvy Ray Smith or Edwin Catmull? It seems kind of arbitrary to pick these three. Especially when the edit by 155.232.250.19 is unsourced. AlistairMcMillan 06:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. An uncited assertion like that should be removed. —BenFrantzDale 11:51, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


Pixar Price

The price Steve Jobs paid for Pixar was $10 million dollars. Alvy Ray Smith (http://www.alvyray.com/) has been kind enough to put up photocopies of the actual checks (two checks for $5 million each) on his site. Lucasfilm have confirmed this figure several times in the past.

Over the next 10 years Jobs was obliged to put in another $50 million in equipment, salaries, overhead etc.

The confusion is caused by the Gary Wolf interview in "Wired". At that time Pixar was on the brink of its public stock offering. Jobs, ten years later, was saying quite rightly that the Pixar purchase had cost him $60 million - and no one at Pixar was about to argue with that. (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.02/jobs.html)

But the sale price from Lucas to Jobs was $10 million dollars. Not $60 million.


See also: Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer (page 219); The Second Coming of Steve Jobs by Alan Deutschman (page 91) And: http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2006/jan/25disney.htm - douga6


Jobs bought Pixar from Lucasfilm. The second paragraph of the article gives the impression that Jobs built Pixar from the ground up when that is obviously not true. - By anonymous 204.87.87.185.

pixar salary

anyone know what steve jobs' pixar salary is? we should probably add that... --Yoasif 03:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Steve Jobs' salary at Pixar is currently listed as $52 with no bonus on hoovers.com