Talk:STANAG magazine

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Contents 1 Materials 2 Clarification 3 List of weapons compatible with STANAG magazines 4 Weapons modified for use with STANAG magazines

[edit] Materials

Quote from article: "Magazines have been manufactured with lightweight aluminum or plastic bodies and other inexpensive materials in order to keep costs down, or to meet requirements that treat the magazine more as a disposable piece of equipment than one that is designed to stand up to repeated combat use. As such, many makes of STANAG magazine bodies can easily be bent out of shape, broken, or melted under high-volume fire (i.e., when certain makes of plastic-bodied magazines are used in M16-type rifles and carbines), followers can tilt causing misfeeds or jams, and springs can rust, bind, or lose tension within a relatively short span of time." I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that the reason plastic magazines are used (in the AK-74 family for example) is that cheaper steel magazines deform when they hit hard objects, like the ground. Also I don't think that making magazines out of aluminum is cheaper than steel, but Aluminum is used because its lighter. Could someone cite an example of a plastic magazine "melting" in a weapon, and what do rusting springs have to do with the makeup of the magazine's body? 76.110.200.142 (talk) 23:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification

I see this article has been created with multiple changes to various rifle articles referencing this article. The changes are very ambiguous as stanag is a standard and nothing more. The changes imply that the magazine is interchangeable with other magazines using the same standard. So now instead of showing a rifle was made to shoot a with certain type of mag, in now just indicates other stanag mags. This is a false statement as some rifles are designed to shoot only one type of magazine for specific performance reasons. Other magazines have been created by after market manufacturers but the article should only indicate the mag the rifle was designed to shoot and definitly be more specific than just other STANAG magazines. --I already forgot 16:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of weapons compatible with STANAG magazines

Today an unknown user added several weapons to the list that I am personally aware do not use NATO STANAG magazines. Not all assault rifles chambered for 5.56x45mm use STANAG-compatible magazines. Some magazines may look like STANAG magazines (for example, those made for the Ruger Mini-14) but attach to the rifle in a way that is not compatible with STANAG 4179.

Also, the inclusion of the Ultimax 100 and notes regarding its use of STANAG magazines is questionable at best. If a STANAG magazine must be modified to attach to the weapon properly, said weapon is not compatible with STANAG 4179 and as such should not be added to this list. I am currently unsure of the HK23 and Stoner 63. I believe the HK23 requires the installation of a magazine adapter kit to use a box magazine, though the use of said kit may make the HK23 STANAG 4179-compatible. The Stoner 63 appears to have used a "rock and lock" type magazine which, while similar in construction and appearance to the STANAG magazine, is not compatible with STANAG 4179. I am unsure as to whether a STANAG-compatible magazine well was every manufactured for the Stoner 63. Confirmation and consensus would be appreciated. Thanks, Raygun 22:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I feel I need to clarify since I added the notes regarding the Ultimax 100. I didn't add it to the list, but I do have personal experience with it and it *does* use modified M-16 30-round magazines. Should it stay in the list? --Rifleman 82 04:39, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

No. The keyword there is "modified". If it's modified, it's not a STANAG magazine anymore. —Thernlund ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 05:00, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. If it is modified, but still meets all the requirements for the standard, it still meets the standard. The weapon may not be STANAG 4179 compatible, but the magazine definitely is. --Rifleman 82 06:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, that is a good point. If the modification does not alter the magazine so as to prevent it from being used in a STANAG-compatible weapon, then the magazine certainly still meets the STANAG standard. But I still don't think the weapon should be included in the list. As Raygun points out, the weapon itself is not STANAG-compatible. Technically speaking, it does not use STANAG mags. —Thernlund ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 07:04, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that this weapon should be included either, but I just wanted to make that point. Thanks. As a side-mention, there are no purpose-built Ultimax-100 30-round magazines. --Rifleman 82 07:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Rifleman 82. I understand you were just attempting to clarify the article. That's certainly good information to pass along, but perhaps it's more appropriate for the Ultimax 100 article than this one. (I see you did exactly that last month. Thanks for teaching me something! Being that the guy that was responsible for scaling the AR-10 down to 5.56mm was the very same guy that designed the Ultimax 100, it certainly makes sense that he'd put some effort into making sure that their mags were as compatible as the respective designs allowed.)

Does anyone have more info regarding a STANAG mag well for the Stoner 63? I know the Robinson M96 is based on the Stoner 63 and it does have a STANAG mag well. I'm just not sure if that was Stoner's idea or Robinson's. Raygun 09:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

As there has been no response to my inquiry, I have removed the Stoner 63 from the list. Raygun 02:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weapons modified for use with STANAG magazines

An unknown user has edited the article to include a section concerning weapons that have been modified from their original design to become compliant with STANAG 4179. A link has been included to a picture of a Steyr AUG with a STANAG magazine attached. While this picture does show that someone has made parts that allow an AUG to comply with STANAG 4179, it does not prove that the original manufacturer had anything to do with it, or if they did, whether this was just an experiment or is an actual option for production weapons. This could easily be a one-off or small-volume run of aftermarket parts. Additionally, it doesn't appear to be an "adaptor" that provides this functionality, but rather an entirely different housing/stock assembly with a latch in the appropriate place to interface with the STANAG magazine (look at the pictures on the Steyr AUG page and compare them to the picture in question). As of yet I have not been able to locate any information beyond this unofficial article that suggests that Steyr does produce a STANAG 4179-compliant AUG. The AUG A3 does appear to differ from previous versions in that it includes an additional control to the left rear of the magazine well, though its function is not clear to me. This would seem an odd place for a magazine release button. It would appear more likely to me to be a bolt hold-open release. No mention is made concerning either in the Wikipedia article for the Steyr AUG. To make a longer story short, information beyond a single image would be appreciated.

Concerning the G36 and its modular magazine well, I have long heard about a STANAG 4179-compliant magazine well for the G36 but I have never personally seen such a device or any information directly from Heckler & Koch regarding the manufacture of said device. I do not mean to suggest that they have not done so (it certainly makes sense that they would), only that we need more information to support these statements in this Wikipedia article. The G36 page also makes no mention of it. Thanks, Raygun 02:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Unknown user editing this article: Please stop providing single pictures as citation references. They do not provide enough information to support claims in more than a superficial fashion. For example, early XM8 mock-ups used the STANAG magazine because they were derived from XM29 mock-up rifles. When the XM8 was designated independently and its development got underway, Heckler & Koch did away with the STANAG magazine and provided their own, which was derived from the G36. As such, the statement that "[a modular magazine well] was also planned to be implemented on the XM8 rifle", using the reference you've provided, is false. I can provide you with links to hundreds of pictures that show that later working examples of XM8 rifle did not include a provision for a modular magazine well or the use of STANAG magazines. Please provide better information for citation references. Raygun 00:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)