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Why are we having a mild revert war over whether St Ives is in England or the United Kingdom. I suspect there is policy somewhere to cover this, and at a guess it would come down on the side of using 'United Kingdom'. -- Solipsist 22:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Hmm....Rather childish really. St Ives is in Cornwall, which is (at least for the present) a county in South-West England. Newcastle is in North-West England, as opposed to the North-West UK, which would put it where Aberdeen is. ChrisRed 15:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Actually it turned out to be a non-trivial, low level issue that has been bubbling along for a year or two. The end result was an attempt to set a policy at WikiProject UK geography (settle down and make a strong cup of coffee before following that link...). Unfortunately, after a lot of potentially useful debate, the conclusion was a pretty even split between listing Home Nation or Home Nation+UK (I think), but no real concensus. But then it degenerated with issues of sockpuppetry and the like. -- Solipsist 15:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Still doesn't change the fact that Cornwall is a gob-smackingly wonderful place / county / duchy / whatever. It just looks a bit silly. Like when we were kids and sometimes wrote our address as .....town,...shire, the World, the Solar System, The Universe etc. Still, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Despite some seperatist / devolutionist ambitions, Cornwall at the moment is a splendid county (or Duchy) in South-West England. If somebody is dim enough not to know that England is, in turn, one of the countries that together make-up the UK, then he can click on 'England' and all will be revealed. It's not as though anybody is going to mix it up with another England somewhere else. Otherwise we might as well say Cornwall / England / Europe / The World etc. ChrisRed 07:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
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- The issue really boils down to a lack of understanding between England/English and Cornwall/Cornish. You are right that Cornwall is currently administered as a county of England, and Wikipedia should reflect this fact. What really gets up the nose of Cornish folk is the assertion (and naive assumption by many)that this then automatically makes them English, which it does not. I personally don't have a problem with Cornwall being described as part of England, as despite various historic peculiarities regarding the independance of the area it is governed (and has been since 1888) as if it were a county - and you are right that it is a bit silly to say otherwise. What is not silly or trivial is telling people what nationality they should be. Cornwall has always had a culture and identity all of its own and I don't think anyone has a right to walk all over that just because it makes the map look messy. This doesn't make Cornish people not British, or even anti English neither does it make them separatists or devolutionists - I think most Cornish people realise the reality of the situation and most wouldn't want to separate from England, just to be recognised for what they are; a distinct home nation. Its not exactly a unique situation to have more than one nation within a county (UK, Spain - Spanish, Basques, Catalans; France - Bretons, French, Yugoslavia etc) take care Mammal4 08:54, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Fair enough. I really can't go much further into this, as of course I am not a Cornishman, and therefore there is a limit to how much I can 'empathise' with the separatist emotion. It just saddens me. As a Brit, I think of my homeland as it appears from space. My home stretches from the Shetlands to Land's End; from County Kerry to Fife to Dover. I am used to travelling around the place and finding magical corners where the people have different accents, languages, cultures etc. When I go to Wales, Ireland or for that matter Cornwall, I expect the people to be a 'different shade' of Brit. I expect the road signs to be bilingual, I expect to hear people talking in their own local accent, or indeed language, but I still always felt that I was still in my own homeland. Now it seems that the English are regarded somewhat as the 'bogeymen' of the UK, with almost everybody seeking to distance themselves from us. When I go to Scotland I seem to carry the stain of Longshanks and Wade - both dead centuries before I was born, and not held in any great esteem by the English themselves (because of course we know a tyrant when we see one too). If I go to Ireland I am now thought of as being from the same race as the butcher Cromwell, despite the fact that if there were no Irish, then there would have been no Wellington or Monty, and the battle of Trafalgar would have been a short, one-sided affair. People seem to act as though 'The English' were still some kind of crushing imperialist threat, seeking to smother everybody else's identity like the Borg. I just find it so sad and negative when we reach the point where a man goes from standing amongst fellow Englishmen and proudly announcing "I am a Cornishman" to instead standing in Kernow and sneering "I am NOT an Englishman!". Thanks anyway. ChrisRed 08:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
