Talk:St Austell

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Contents 1 POV problems 2 Finished Cleanup 3 Begun Cleanup 4 General Wolfe 5 Cleaning 6 Suggestions for Improvements 6.1 Article 6.2 Pictures

[edit] POV problems

A little note to all those editing this article (if they ever even look at this page) and to the moderator/user that placed the new notice up there.

People contributing to this article are not fully familiar with the wikipedia rules in general, or even aware that there are rules. There are quite a lot of people who believe that it doesn't matter whether or not the site has a formal or informal tone, and opt to take an informal tone. Moreover, these people are unlikely to take any time to read the rules and familiarise themselves iwth the kind of tone they should adopt when contributing to an article.

Unfortunately, as well-meaning as their contributions may be, we, or I, will just have to put up with editing their contributions to fit in to wikipedia's accepted guidelines. Indeed, some of the most valuable contributors to this article may be quite elderly by now, and may well be new to the internet as well as just wikipedia. So I think we should be patient despite this.

Honestly I get the impression that I'm talking to myself here. Until someone else shows a real interest in this article I'm not going to be contributing to it anymore, or at least not significantly. I feel slightly mean for doing this, because this is my town and I've lived here for a long time so it would be wrong to abandon it, but in all honesty it's beyond me to do this article by myself. I just don't have the knowledge. In fact I'm pretty sure that some of the stuff that I've put there isn't right. --Badharlick 01:13, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I entirely agree, the Redevelopment section alone is highly POV. I will be happy to help with this, but will need some time, as I'm a bit busy at the moment. Any ideas for current changes? Roche-Kerr 15:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Finished Cleanup

The article is basically a complete article now. It could easily be expanded further and there's room for that if any experts/historians wish to do so, but I think since it no longer needs cleaning up I'm good to remove the cleanup notice. Which I have.

In case anyone was wondering, the reason there's a section on Architecture is I think that on it's own it's worth noting that Trevail was responsible for the design of the Thin End building. Otherwise I mainly wanted to bring up the interesting prominance of Brutalist architecture in the town. It comes from an era of modernisation which ultimately failed to achieve it's own ideals, and St Austell is in many ways a microcosm of that.

It could use a photo of the town center, maybe aylmer square (which I neglected to mention in the article now that I come to think of it) or perhaps fore street. I doubt I'll remember to do this so I'm leaving it up to someone else.

Comments are welcome on my talk page. --Badharlick 07:57, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Begun Cleanup

I have made some big changes to this page, and would appreciate any feedback, fact checks and amendments to errors. I will continue to edit and add to the article as time permits.

--Badharlick 01:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] General Wolfe

I see an anonymous user has added the General Wolfe to the list of pubs in the town centre - can anyone confirm if it has re-opened? DuncanHill 08:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I can confirm that I've certainly never seen it. I know that what I put in about there being only 7 pubs isn't quite right though, and I also know that some of the "facts" on the food outlets aren't totally factual, but St Austell has so many food outlets that it's almost impossible to remember them all. What this article really needs is someone who takes an interest in the history of St Austell town. --Badharlick 05:36, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The General Wolfe is currently being used as stores for Adeba Toy Shop. There are far more than 7 pubs in St Austell - but about 7 in the town centre, though of course that depends on how you define 'town centre'. I will come back to this article over time as I get better information on the town and its history. DuncanHill 10:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I know which pub you mean now. I can't recall what it was called instead, but it certainly wasn't called The General Wolfe when it last closed. It had attempted to reopen a number of times under various names and a slew of managers, but obviously was not successful. As is typical in Cornwall, everyone ignores pub name changes except for me! I end up assuming that someone is talking about some distant pub I've never heard of when it's actually the previous name of one that I visit quite often. (generally speaking here, I never went in the General Wolfe)

On another, entirely seperate note, I'm going to remove the blabbering about the architecture. It doesn't read well, vaguely smells of POV, and I don't feel that the so called "Brutalist" architecture is anything more notable than the kind of sixties modernity that happened everywhere. I'll keep the little section on Silvanus Trevail though. --▫Bad▫harlick♠ 16:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning

This article could use some more cleaning to bring it up to scratch. I'll split up the bit on the redevelopment into sections on the plans, what's happened so far, criticism, and support, so that it's not such a huge block of text. I'll see about adding some photographs, plans, maps, and expanding the St Austell Brewery section. I believe an article on the brewery already exists so I may be able to draw some content from that and just link to it. --▫Bad▫harlick♠ 16:58, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions for Improvements

This article (which is also the town I live in) is in a mess (to be honest). I think keeping a more harsh watch on contributions made (and revert them if needed) would help. I've done a skim at it and noted some of the changes that could be made.

[edit] Article

• Change all references of "UK" to "United Kingdom" (increases the formalness of the article).
• Get rid of the "colloquially pronounced "snozzle"" part at the top of the article and put it somewhere else. Snozzle is used to say that St. Austell is boring to the point where it makes you sleep (apparently, or the impression given by me). It's just too negative to be up there at the start of the article. Unless anyone can provide a link (thus cite) and prove me wrong. (Not Needed)
• Change "St Austell does not have a town council but is the site..." to "St Austell does not have a town or parish council but is the site..." in the third introductory paragraph.
• Change (2001 census) to (according to the 2001 census). Link also needed (Office of National Statistics somewhere?) for citing on the population number.
• Get rid of the largest shops list in other industries and those large ones mentioned in the food section. There's nothing unique (the big ones, not the local ones) about the shops mentioned there (thus nothing more than advertising) and I don't see list of shops on other towns in Cornwall.
• Get rid of the St. Austell Brewery section and create a seperate article for it (if needed).
• Get rid of the Redevelopment section. It's a complete mess and needs rewording but perhaps not with the current text already there (my eyes treat it as one giant annoying paragraph which can't be edited) and not being very Neutral Point of View (NPOV) with a sentence like "The barren town centre looks like a town in the middle of a recession.".
• Does anybody care about Poltair School having a head teacher called Heather McIroy? To me it makes the article informal so should go in a seperate Poltair School article and merge the three paragraphs into one paragraph in the Education section.

I've lived in this town for 10 years, and I can safely tell you that "snozzle" does not mean that it is "boring", it's just the local pronounciation and is commonly used. I'm not going to cite sources to prove a point because that is a rediculous workload. I won't make any assumptions about where you're from (although it is tempting), but I will say this of your instance to request that absolutely every fact ever in the whole world be cited; unless it's in dispute, leave it. If it's not POV, or you can find nothing to prove that it's POV, then it's fine until someone who knows what they're talking about says otherwise. ▫Bad▫harlick♠ 05:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I should have reworded that second bullet point a bit better (it is embrassing for me as I have been living in the town all my life and perhaps due to me not bothering to get out of the house much). When my mind thinks of Snozzle (I've only come across it when browsing social networking sites) it makes me think of the snooze button on an alarm clock but I don't think anyone else would agree with that. Anyway, I've crossed that part in the list out (along with everything else that's been done or should I write Done/Not needed in bold?).

As for that Redevelopment section (shouldn't it be renamed to Town Centre Redevelopment?) covered in a lot of [citation needed] (If I'm guessing right) tags I feel it's a little excessive (I feel the NPOV notice would have done just fine). I feel the whole section needs to be rewritten sort of like this:

• Introductory paragraph (or two) on the redevelopment, who is in charge of town centre redevelopment and the supposed benefits of the redevelopment.
• A paragraph (or two) on the original redevelopment schudele and how much the original redevelopment would cost.
• A paragraph (or two) on the criticism and problems with the redevelopment (long delays, over-budget, local businesses folding, etc).

I think the last last paragraph in the current redevelopment section should be moved into the main Economy section as it doesn't seem to be anything related to the town centre redevelopment specifically. --Kiri* 18:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

• Alymer Square.
• Eden Project (possibly).
• Fore Street.
• China Clay tips.

Any other ideas? --Kiri* 15:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Have reworded the sentence about no town council, including wikilinks.DuncanHill 21:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Have also wikilinked the 2001 census, and removed the brewery section as it is covered elsewhere in the article - I do think the brewery needs an article of its own as well. Have done some minor copy editing as well. DuncanHill 22:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)