User talk:St. Andrew's Secondary School

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[edit] A gentle reminder

Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, your recent edits from Jan 29 - Feb 8 2008, as you did to St. Andrew's School (Singapore)‎ and Saint Andrew's Secondary School‎‎ may be reverted or removed by other editors or administrators later:

  • Adding content without citing a reliable source, is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. Material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced may be removed immediately.
  • No edit summary: This is considered an important guideline. Even a short summary is better than no summary. An edit summary is even more important if you amend or delete any text; otherwise, people may question your motives for the edit i.e. likely vandals or trolls.
  • Possible conflict of interest: Where an editor must forego advancing the aims of Wikipedia in order to advance outside interests, that editor stands in a conflict of interest according to your username, the content and your edit history to date.[1]. COI edits are strongly discouraged. When they cause disruption to the encyclopedia in the opinion of an uninvolved administrator, they may lead to accounts being blocked and embarrassment for the individuals and groups who were being promoted.

Kindly note -- Aldwinteo (talk) 10:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your note.
On behalf of St. Andrew's Secondary School, St. Andrew's Village and the St. Andrew's Secondary School's Archival committee I thank you for your advice. However I would like to indicate that while I am currently acting as the School Archivist, I do not have the know how to edit every single addition and include a summary that is any different from what is already seen on the main article.
As for citing sources, you will have to note that I am unable to cite an online source as the source of information on our alumni is the School fund raising accounting records.
However if you wish to check with me regarding the information you may email me at sass@moe.edu.sg or contact me at +65 6285 1944.
Regards Kenneth
Hi Kenneth, do take a look at the following to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia:
Rgds -- Aldwinteo (talk) 08:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Again, thank your for your links. However they provide me with only polices and guidlines and not the know how to include a summary or how to cite sources that are not available on the net. As I stated above, the corrections and additions provided on behalf of the School and the Village comes not from a souce that can be cited and checked as it is our own archival materials or accounting records. Also as stated if you wish a confirmation of such information please feel free to contact me via the School at the following email address sass@moe.edu.sg or +65 6285 1944. If however wikipedia insists on reverting what was corrected and added about the Secondary School then I would suggest that you consider removing the entire article as any revision would only revert the article to one that was not done in consultation with us.

As such seeing the possibility of such erroneous information being restored to a corrected article I would like to have a contact address of someone who would be able to remove the entire article should such a travesty occur.

Regards Kenneth

Being a RC patroller & a member of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Fact and Reference Check, it's my job to inform, verify or to revert any unconstructive edits done to Wikipedia by any vandals, trolls or POV pushers. I've not taken any action yet as I believe your edits were done in good faith, even though I've expressed legitimate concern esp on the issue of COI as per Wikipedia policies & guidelines. Pse be informed that a user is deemed to have agreed implicitly (and be subjected to its policies & guidelines) when they uploaded any content to Wikipedia. As u are a newbie here, I've provided u the necessary reminders & some useful wiki links to help u understand & familarise more about Wikipedia earlier. If u are still clueless about basic editing in Wikipedia, I wld strongly advised u to acquaint yourself by test editing first (which u missed out earlier), in order to avoid any unnecessary disputes or frustrations, should any no-nonsense editors or adminstrators follow-up on your edit history or added content later. Do check the following links:
On a final note, Wikipedia is a community effort & almost all decisions are based or derived from the process of community discussion & consensus. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 10:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


And once again I repeat myself that you are free to contact me at sass@moe.edu.sg or call me at +65 62851944 should you need any confirmation of the information I have submitted. I too have given you a contact link to the School and to me in good faith that you would seek confirmation of any information from the School which is an current existing entity in it's own right.

As stated in my last request, please provide me with a contact with whom the School can write in to request a removal of the entry on the School and Village should you choose to revert the ammendments back to it's orginal entry as the original article was not done in consultation with the School and may give an impression that is less the true and accurate.

If the School is unable to append and correct information, no matter how minor that is lacking and/or incorrect, on an article that was orignally written without consultation with the School about the School, then as the entity involved and referred to, we should have the right to write for the removal of the said article(s).

FYI no permission was ever sought of the School to place any of our data, be it MOE school codes or images of the School or the Village.. While I trust in good faith that the articles written were placed there by the alumni of the School, the alumni do not in anyway represent the School in any fashion.

As such I reiterate my request for a contact to whom the School can write in should we require that the articles regarding us be removed.

It's unnecessary for me to contact u directly, as I've not requested nor taken any follow-up action to date except giving u a reminder as mentioned in my previous reply. Moreover, the COI issue has already been detected & reported by a Wiki bot earlier, named User:COIBot, to the relevant administrator(s) on Feb 1 & Feb 8 respectively even before my gentle reminder to u:
u may be informed by a relevant administrator accordingly shld they revert your case for any follow-up action later i.e. COI Noticeboard. If u want to put up a request for the article to be deleted (no guarantee that someone may recreate them in the near future), u may post your request at WP:AFD which will be evaluated & decided upon by the relevant committee over a 5 day period. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 03:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for finally giving me the information that I have requested on more then one occasion. As I have previously said I would write in on behalf of the School and Village should the amendments made to correct the mistakes be reverted to what was previously stated so as to prevent a travesty from occuring and provide wrong information about our Institution from being diseminated.

If I may remind you that in your intial 'note' to me you stated, and I quote "Adding content without citing a reliable source, is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. Material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced may be removed immediately." My reply was and has been consistent that should you need a confirmation of the information submitted you are free to contact me @ sass@moe.edu.sg or at the School's office at +65 62851944. The School and our Archives are the most reliable source of information on our Institution, it is not possible that we are not since we are the entity that is in question. However it is impossible cite ourselves as we are unable to provide direct reference to our physical archival materials and accounting records.

While I appreciate wiki's zeal in wanting information from sources that can be verified online, it is absolutely ridiculous to demand that it be so when the source of the information comes from our own physical records of which no online referencing is at all possible.

As seen from your replies, I believe u have not fully understand on citing sources in Wikipedia & even its policies & guidelines as a whole. u can used the abovementioned templates to cite any sources used, be it from books, journals, web, publications, news etc. including 'EndNotes' if necessary. Online references is not the only references Wikipedia used here! (See other school-related articles for examples) As such, your repeated remarks on being 'ridiculous' or 'travesty' is really uncalled for. (See the outcome of a previous COI case here). Moving forward, if u have any concerns related to SA articles, it wld be best to highlight this on the respective article talk pages in the interest of all parties concerned. In Wikipedia, we use the article talkpages as a start, for like-minded editors to discuss or resolve issues in order to improve or protect the content/integrity of the article concerned. Some of the experienced contributors there (mostly SA alumni I believe) may want to collaborate with u in editing, updating or verifying its content shld u guide or offer access to such records/references to them later. I've said enuf & I have no wish to continue this conversation further at the expense of my patience & good faith which were extended to u all these while. -- Aldwinteo (talk) 09:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It is a travesty when the entity involed in your article seeks to set the mistakes right and you threaten to revert it because we do not cite our sources, which so happens to be ourselves. Changes as made to the article are not matters of discussion since they are facts regarding the School and Village and are not subjective to a common opinion. To use an example, would you open a discussion of whether a red coloured tomato can be discribed as red or not?

I have no wish to further discuss this matter with you either, which I did done in good faith on our part to the extent of inviting you to contact us for a verification of the facts and which you have clearly refused to do so saying that it is not required or requested by you. And despite your claims of good faith I have seen nothing of such, if nothing else you have been reticent in extending your 'help'. Your sole intent as seen from your replies above come across as one who has an incessant need to reinforce the fact that he has more authority and lord it over another. And if I may remind you that it took repeated requests before you actually provided me with a contact for which the School can request a removal of the article. Lastly as I have explained to you, which you apparently choose not to understand, the School archives and accounting records itself are the source of information, and as souch are neither books, journals, website, publications or news etc and do not in anyway happen to fall into your suggested source of information. The source of information happens to be the entity being discussed in the article. Your citation template does not include any method to cite an entity itself.

Anything which is not verifiable from independent, impartial reliable sources cannot be added to Wikipedia. --Orange Mike | Talk 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
This account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia, because it has been identified as an account used for promotion of a company or group, with a username that implies that this has been done by that company or group. See Wikipedia:Business' FAQ and Wikipedia:Conflict of interest.

This kind of activity is considered spamming and is forbidden by Wikipedia policies. In addition, the use of a username like yours violates our username policy.

You may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below or emailing the administrator who blocked you.

Your reason should include your response to this issue and a new username you wish to adopt that does not violate our username policy (specifically, understand that accounts are for individuals, not companies or groups, and that your username should reflect this). Usernames that have already been taken are listed here.

--Orange Mike | Talk 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)