Talk:Spoonerism

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Contents 1 Spanish 2 TV 3 The Self-Referential Spoonerism 4 Bush 5 vowel harmony 6 Disclaimer 7 Wrong pronoun... 8 Capitalisation? 9 "Butterfly" 10 Sir Stifford 11 Disability 12 Trevor McDonald 13 SNL Celebrity Jeopardy 14 Oonerspism or Roonerspism? 15 So no spoonerisms from Bush? 16 Toin Coss? 17 What about spoonerisms in common usage? 18 Mood Fart photo 19 Rilkoy Huz Weer 20 Pop Culture Usage Heading 21 Monty Python reference 22 Funniest Wiki Article Ever 23 definition in the lede 24 Colonel Lemuel Q. Stoopnagle 25 Goodafterble Constanoon 26 here is another one

[edit] Spanish

I have consulted Spanish work friends who do not recognise the word bolones as being Spanish and bolones does not stand for granite. My Chilean friend says that Una cabra is a female goat or in slang would be a woman of low repute, whereas bolones could refer to a person from bolon or in Chilean slang can be big breasts.--Rodgeratkin (talk) 08:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TV

Doesn't the sitcom series "King of Queens" have an Arthur Spooner?

[edit] The Self-Referential Spoonerism

oonerspism

 thank you. JimmyTheSaint 01:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bush

Hmm . . . despite being solidly in the Anybody But Bush camp, I think we might want to not single out Bush as a spoonerismer (spoonerismist?) unless we can cite lots of examples from reliable sources. NPOV and all. That said, I'm going to wikify and copyedit User:JoeHenzi's most recent edit. Any other opinions? Ventura 04:09, 2004 Aug 30 (UTC)

I see that it is still there, no big deal if it is removed or not... but what happened to the large list? JoeHenzi 13:22, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It should go; it doesn't really fit in.

I agree. Seems out of place and non-NPOV. Enjoyed the rest of the article, I have to say. Uttaddmb

That was feely runny. And another from a bumper sticker (that I agree with): Buck Fush

I removed it. I'm with Ventura in the Anybody but bush camp, but this still doesn't belong here. Toveling 08:06, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] vowel harmony

I didn't think French had vowel harmony. Can some linguist check this out? -- Novalis 20:32, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC) OK, I asked a French speaker, and confirmed that French doesn't have vowel harmony -- Novalis 21:58, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I suspect it was actually referring to assonance.

[edit] Disclaimer

I have added a short paragraph to reflect the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, saying that many attributed Spoonerisms are thought to be apocryphal.

[edit] Wrong pronoun...

"Jasper Carrot claims to have an Aunt who frequently makes spoonerisms, referring to him as a 'Shining Wit'."

If it's his aunt, shouldn't it be "referring to her..." instead of "referring to him..."? It may be an uncle, instead of an aunt, no idea. Also, why is "aunt" capitalized? I don't think it should be. I'm going to change it to her and make "aunt" lower-case. Haddock420 00:23, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey there Haddock -- the "him" here refers to Jasper Carrot; he's not insulting his aunt, he's saying his aunt insults him. I changed it back to "him". But you're right about the capitalization thing.

[edit] Capitalisation?

Given that the word "spoonerism" is derived from a proper noun, i.e. Spooner's name, shouldn't all instances of it be capitalised? For example, "Freudian", from Freud, is normally capitalised. McPhail 18:30, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Adjectives derived from proper nouns are capitalized, while other parts of speech derived from proper nouns are typically lowercased. At any rate, it's lowercased in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, The American Heritage Dictionary, and The Oxford English Dictionary.--jrowen42 00:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The way I use such a term is, it's a Spoonerism if an actual quote from the Rev. Spooner, a spoonerism if merely an example of the sort of thing Spooner is supposed to have said. 193.122.47.162 11:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Butterfly"

The notion that "butterfly" originated as a spoonerism of "flutterby" is a folk etymology (see here), so the comment about it should be removed or amended. --Jrowen42 23:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sir Stifford

Stafford Cripps was Chancellor of the Exchequer in the post-War Attlee government. It was an age of austerity, and Sir Stafford was a grimly austere figure. It was popularly supposed, in non-reverential circles, that he was enjoying it, in a perverse sort of way (like a Puritan was supposed not to be happy unless he was being miserable). Traditional jocular description of such an attitude is tight, hard up, etc., Freudian reference to bowel movements and toilet training. Referring to Sir Stafford Cripps as Sir Stifford Crapps (reference to constipation) was a music hall joke, the inventor was supposedly Ted Ray, a comedian noted for quick wits and known as the best ad libber in the business. The man who said it on air, in his role as a BBC announcer (newsreader) was McDonald Hobley. This was the age when BBC announcers had to wear a dinner jacket, even on radio, where they would not be seen. Hobley fell foul of the rules on two counts, he was being disrespectful of a Government minister (even humble MPs received deferential respect in those days) and he was using coarse vulgarity, which was anathema to the egregiously middle-class Corporation at the time. Funnily enough (coincidence?) McDonald Hobley was "chairman" of the long-running radio programme Does The Team Think, a panel "discussion" featuring Ted Ray and colleagues in unscripted comments on topical issues.

This was certainly not a spontaneous verbal scramble, which a Spoonerism is supposed to be, rather a premeditated witticism.

Guy 13:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

(Sir Winston Churchill, who disliked Sir Stafford, is supposed to have remarked, when seeing him pass by, "There, but for the grace of God, goes God.")

Kostaki mou 05:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disability

I see no reference to the various linguistic disabilities which could cause something like this.. -- Sy / ^(talk) 23:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Good point. If this is a genuine "medical" condition with a psychological/psychiatric/psychosomatic origin, then this ought to be made clear early in the article. Deserves an early mention if this is proven not so. Also, whether deliberate transposition of syllables for comic effect is genuinely a Spoonerism. Remember the Monty Python sketch featuring the man who always speaks in anagrams, and when challenged that "that was not an anagram, that was a Spoonerism", he replies "if you're splitting hairs, I'm pissing off". Guy 23:24, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trevor McDonald

Didn't he once say "Cunt Kentryside" live on The News?

• I was just looking for this. Based on the low number of Google hits for "Kent Countryside" Spoonerism and "Cunt Kentryside", I think it's apocraphal. I wish it was true. A Geek Tragedy 22:32, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SNL Celebrity Jeopardy

If you're going to include Sean Connery v. Alex Trebeck jokes from Saturday Night Live's Celebrity Jeopardy, shouldn't you also include the Buck Futter line, being a final Jeopardy answer in one episode? BigNate37 07:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I added that just before I read your comment. I also corrected the exact phraseing of the sick duck joke. nkife 06:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I added the dubious assertion because the line, if completed would probably not a spoonerism, with, in my opinion, "One's a sick duck, the other's a sick fuck". "One's a sick fuck, the other's a suck dick" doesn't make sense and would be rendered better with the former. Again, this is only an opinion and I am curious as to other opinions on this. Valley2city 05:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it work's out to "one's a sick duck, the other's a dick suck." - nkife 01:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

They're definitely going for "sick fuck." This dispute is irrelevant anyway, though, since unless there's a source that supports one telling or another, the speculation is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. I'm going to remove mentions of this joke and leave only "buck futter." Croctotheface 09:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oonerspism or Roonerspism?

The article mentions "oonerspism", but wouldn't it be "roonerspism"? Google search turns up more hits for the latter.

• I'd go with oonerspism.. when you're switching around a vowel it gets tricky, so with SPOONER-ISM it's easy enough just to put the SP in front of ISM and leave the rest alone.. i don't know where that extra R is coming from in roonerspism. - nkife 00:01, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

"Speverend Rooner" --67.180.56.14 09:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

There'd be an extra <r> (letter) but not extra /r/ (sound) for me. So that extra <r> would make up for the <r> which becomes silent by its being put infront of the <s>. Jimp 23:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So no spoonerisms from Bush?

I've got just one, which he used in his first run for president: "bariffs and tarriers" (i.e. tariffs and barriers). The source is Frank Bruni, Ambling into History (although Bruni writes it as "bariffs and terriers".) --Chris 03:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Toin Coss?

I'm not entirely sure, but would "toin coss" (as in the coin toss before a football game) be considered a spoonerism? I know numerous people (as well as myself, apparently) who say it constantly without even being conscious of it. - Ecksem Diem 20:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, "toin coss" is a spoonerism. nkife 00:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What about spoonerisms in common usage?

Now I don't even really know what "common usage" might mean but I hear 'Chewing the doors' quite often. Is a section on purposeful humour through spoonerism worth adding?Favouritesnail 14:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mood Fart photo

This photo has obviously been digitally altered rather than being a genuine photograph of the "food mart" (even a cursory glance at the first letter of each word shows this). Does such an imposture really belong here?

No, I'm deleting it. Justin Bailey 01:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rilkoy Huz Weer

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Rilkoy huz weer.
WiiWillieWiki 16:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pop Culture Usage Heading

This is why Wikipedia is ridiculous. Why does this article need 48 modern usage reference examples to help us understand spoonerism? "Before he joined Nirvana, Dave Grohl belonged in a band named Dain Bramage." By the 47th example, I think we understand the concept. We don't need sentence after sentence of superfluous pop culture references. Where does it end? Why not list ALL the Simpsons episodes with spoonerism in them? I can think of at least 10 more. Why the ones listed but not others? Why not just list a few pop culture references so we get the idea. 48 references is at the point of having an article entitled "pop culture spoonerism usage", which is useless it its own right. "The Quick Takes column of the Chicago Sun-Times speculated that it would be unfortunate if the child of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt (named Shiloh) were to be Christened by a descendant of Rev. Spooner (the child would then be known as Piloh Shitt)." Who cares?! Absolutely pointless conjecture. That is not at all relevant to this article. "NOFX's best-selling album was entitled Punk in Drublic." Is this a NOFX article???? We understand the concept of spoonerism NO thanks to that album reference. Pick a few (3-4) well known pop culture references and be done with it. I assume this is one user listing all their favorite Metallica puns and Simpsons episodes. Irrelevant to the article. This would definitely be listed under Wikipedia's "poorly composed articles" page. Wilhelm Screamer 06:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

It's more entertaining this way. If you understood the concept after the 10th example why did you continue reading? There are plenty of dry, crusty, scholarly articles on Wikipedia to bore you. --Bentonia School 12:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Monty Python reference

Another bit performed, as I recall, by John Cleese and Connie Booth, and set in a bookstore, had a patron requesting various books that did not exist, including "A Sale of Two Titties" by Darles Chicken.

Yup -- without the four "P"s and a silent "Q" ;) 199.214.26.180 16:01, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Funniest Wiki Article Ever

This article captures spoonerisms brilliantly. Hilarious.

[edit] definition in the lede

In the lede, it says, "A spoonerism is a play on words in which corresponding consonants, vowels, or morphemes are switched.", but yet none of the examples given below have their morphemes switched. Indeed, in one instance it even alters the following morpheme: "wasted two terms"=>"tasted two worms", which lead me to think that it is not the morpheme, but the phoneme, that is switched. Does the definition need to be modified a bit? Keith Galveston (talk) 11:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Eh? In the dialects with which I'm familiar, worm rhymes with term; the switched phoneme is the consonant, not the vowel. —Tamfang (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I meant: in the case of "wasted two terms" becoming "tasted two worms", the morphemes have nothing to do with the switch; it's the underlying /wɝm/ and /tɝm/ that's different. Therefore I question if there is a case of morphemes being switched: spoonerism doesn't seem to have anything to do with morpheme switch.

PS: I just looked at the morpheme article and it turns out that morphemes are far more unrelated to this article than I thought it to be. Keith Galveston (talk) 14:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Colonel Lemuel Q. Stoopnagle

F. Chase Taylor's radio character was a big popularizer of spoonerisms in the 1930's and 40's. I added his famous book of spoonerized tales from 1945 as an external link. There are clear echoes of this style in the Capitol Steps' "Jadies and Lentilmen" segments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.165.18.139 (talk) 05:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goodafterble Constanoon

Hey, thing from New Zealand. This is an anti-drink driving ad on TV. A carful of guys are pulled over and someone, not the driver, addresses the police officer involved with "Goodafterble Constanoon" (good afternoon constable). Is that a spoonerism, and is knowing that useful on this page? ````Karl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.26.246 (talk) 13:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] here is another one

Muck Fichigan (It's a U of I thing) Soyseñorsnibbles^Dígame 21:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)