Talk:Spike Milligan

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[edit] Other Children

Illegitamate children are not mentioned. Colinvincent 23:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Occasionally people have added one, and others deleted the entry. I don't know what the standard is for biographic entries, but I certainly see no reason they can't be included if they are acknowledged or proven to be off-spring. --AGoon.

[edit] Birth place

I'm not sure that it's right to say that Spike's father was Irish-born. I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that Spike's citizenship problems arose because both he and his father were born in India to military families. If Spike's father had been born in the UK (including Ireland at the time) then there would have been no question of Spike's being entitled to a British passport. Presumably he got the Irish citizenship through having an Irish-born grandparent. -- Arwel 19:01 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)

You may well be right, Arwel. I added that line in an attempt to clarify whether he was Irish or English, but I was working from web material of varying reliablilty, and I may have read between the lines a bit. Sources were extremely variable as to Milligan père's rank. too. --rbrwr

Spike's father Leo, according to Humphrey Carpenter's 2003 biography, was born in Sligo, Ireland in 1890.

A father born in what's now the Republic of Ireland was not sufficient to qualify for citizenship of the UK & Colonies when this was introduced in 1949. And at the time, British mothers could not pass on their citizenship. Spike could have applied for registration as a UK citizen on the basis of UK residence but reportedly refused to do so. Due to his father's birthplace he was an Irish citizen automatically. JAJ 04:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Spike was interviewed on the TV some years ago and, as far as I can remember, the story about his citizenship is this: Spike was born in British India and for most of his life thought of himself as British, however, when he came to renew his passport sometime in the 1960's (I think) he was told that he no-longer automatically qualified for British Citizenship and that if he wanted to remain one he would need to go through some rigmarole-or-other in order to do so. Spike, having fought in the British Army during WW II and been wounded in action, in effect, said 'stuff this' to this apparent slur and shortly afterwards met a someone he knew at the Irish Embassy, and, telling him of this, the friend said something like: 'Don't worry about that, we'll let you have one of ours' (passport) - as his fathers Irish place-of-birth automatically qualified Spike to Irish citizenship - and so Spike agreed. Ian Dunster 13:32, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I knew Spike in the late nineties - the story that he told me was that when he wanted to renew his passport he came up against a bureaucratic wall of indifference and pomposity - which he felt aggrieved by as he had fought in the war for the UK. The process seemed like it would take months or years. He phoned the Irish Embassy - where he spoke to an official who was obviously delighted to hear from the great man. Spike recounted that the guy said something like ( and Spike told this in an hilarious Irish accent) "Ah! Mr Milligan - so it's an Irish passport your after? - don't worry at all - we're getting terribly short of people over here! - we'll send you one tommorrow.." - which they did, much to Spike's delight. I think Spike's celebration of his 'Irishness' was a way of sticking two fingers up to British pomposity and offiacldom as anything else - and something that was a constant theme of his work since the war.

There was never a question of him "remaining" a British citizen (or UK & Colonies citizen as it was called at the time). Because of his circumstances he never acquired UK & Colonies citizenship in 1949, it was his choice not to complete the (simple) registration form to obtain it. JAJ 00:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birth name

An anonymous editor has just changed the spelling of Spikes' birth name to Terrance Allan. Practically all online sources give it as Terence Alan (Patrick Sean) e.g. IMDB. I've asked the editor where he got the different spelling, but if there's no satisfactory reply within a few days I'll change it back. Arwel 22:04, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Terence Alan" is the version almost everywhere, including usually authoritative obit sites. See http://www.google.com/search?q=%2BAlan+spike+milligan -- Karada 23:42, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Grovelling bastard

The sentance: "The Prince of Wales was a noted fan, and Milligan caused a stir by calling him a 'little grovelling bastard' on television in 1994." Is there any reference for the "caused a stir" part? It seems to imply that there may have been a public outcry against Spike. I remember the (very funny!) incident but don't remember any negative retaliation? Zik-Zak 23:14, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I am sure there was negative reaction - many not realising that Charles loved it. -- Beardo 04:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately I can't provide any evidence, but I do recall some of the tabloids at the time lambasting him with pseudo-serious outrage.Contains Mild Peril (talk) 23:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is this an advert?

The last paragraph of the main entry on Spike sounds like it was written by the production company in question ("...Goon but not Forgotten will be an intimate and deeply personal portrait of Spike Milligan...") and, since it uncritically reviews an event in the future ("...It will tell Spike’s story through the eyes of [various relatives and friends]"), it doesn't seem appropriate for wikipedia. The entry would end better with Spike's last words anyway.

Zac (www.ortholog.com)

[edit] Headstone

There is a picture online of Spike's wonderful (!) headstone. I can't find it but it says on it 'Duirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite" (I told you I was ill). I wonder what made him keep his Irish link throughout his life (I think he was buried with the tricolour draped over his coffin as well) Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis (May God rest his soul).

I've found a photo [1] but it's not all that legible
Londoneye 19:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
The epitaph was in galic so as not to offend other mourners (I don't know why, I'd love summat funny to read when I'm mourning). As for Spike's Irish "link" he is technically what is known as "more Irish than the Irish". His Dad was Irish, yeah, but he didn't even set foot there until he was 28 or older(I forget) and I don't think he went back too often. He was just one of those people who desperately wanted to embrace an Irishness that wasn't really theirs.--Crestville 15:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hyperlinks

Was it really necessary to hyper link every third word (at a guess) in this article? Completely illegible. Thanks for the links to theatre, film and comedy, obviously they were the first things I needed to look up.

Greglocock 02:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Difficult to have it both ways - you found some links useful; other people might find others useful. I had a go at removing a few, and could only find two that I was sure should go (one being the second link to knighthood in the same line). Why not have a go yourself? (br>Londoneye 10:55, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I've removed most of the dups (60 odd). Wp manual of style recommends generally only linking the first occurrence. Rest in Pieces little links. Barefootguru 23:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Birth place

The article used to have Lucknow.

The Guardian obituary linked to says Poona.

But his books say Ahmednagar. As that's where he said it was and that's where the relevant British Army base was, that's where I've changed it to. (It also happens to be where my father was born - his father was at the same base as Spike's.)

Lovingboth 19:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Originally it said Ahmednagar, but the whole first paragraph under the "Biography" heading was removed by a vandal [2] and wasn't reverted. When the paragraph started to grow back, the wrong information got in. In fact I've just noticed that part of that spate of vandalism [3] still isn't fully fixed ...
...OK, I think it is now. --rbrwr± 21:18, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Influence of the Marx Brothers

This should be acknowleged somehow. My 10 pence worth :) --The unselfish gene 03:28, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Did Milligan ever publicly acknowledge them? JackofOz 06:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I read a series called "classic stories according to Spike Milligan" - Black beauty, Robin Hood and that - And I think every one of them involves Groucho Marx popping up at one stage or another and joining the merry men and that.--Crestville 14:59, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

In the Marx Brothers biography "Monkey Business", on page 414 Spike admits that the bulk of his humor was derived and influenced on the Marx Brothers. IrishGuy 08:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I am positive that in his war memoirs, Spike is asked who he thinks is funny by one soldier. He lists "W.C. Fields, Marx Brothers..." Paul-b4 15:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] translating this article

Good morning, I'm a French enthusiast of Spike Milligan, wether he was quite unknown here untill the french edition of "Adolf Hitler: My Part in his Downfall" in 1998 that permitted me to discover his wonderfull sense of humor, indeed, but mostly his love of human kind; so I would like to know if it is possible to "borrow" your article (or some of your references) so as to use them in a french tongue Wikipedia article, or giving it a full translation. I, can, if you like, translate from french to english ANY article (except scientific article) to please you, english wikipedians. ;) Send me an answer me at fb75003@hotmail.fr By the way, what about creating correspondants in every countries, every languages to "exchange" (? I have a doubt on that word!) our knowledges? Hope i'll heard of you soon, sincerly yours, Fabian BERNARD.

I don't think you need to ask for permission. That's the beauty of Wikipedia! Go right ahead... --Byron Farrow 12:06, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spike and Environmental Causes

I was fortunate to know Spike in his later life. I worked for BTCV (British Trust for Conservation Volunteers) of which Spike was an active supporter. When he was younger Spike actively participated in conservation working holidays. He told me that one of these involved 'restoring a Roman road somewhere up North - the buggers didn't build it right' -and despite the fact that this involved camping and working in the pouring rain he said 'it was the best fun I've had since the war - the shared adversity brings people together - you get closer to people - one of them got so close to me she got into my sleeping bag'.

Spike was a supporter right up to his death - and I remember him as a very public environmentalist and supporter of groups like Friends of the Earth, The World Wildlife Fund, Greenpeace and Population Concern in the sixties and seventies.

I think this should be mentioned in Wikipedia - but think that this would be better informed by contributions from groups like FOE who probably owe a lot to the man.

Dean Morrison 11:33, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What makes him British

considering he couldn't get a british passport as the articial says and he him self said he wasnt British he's Irish many times. I think the following categorys should be removed

  • British actors * British comedy writers * British radio writers |

(Gnevin 21:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC))

OTOH he did fight for Britain in WW2, and I think he lived in Britain most of his life. I'd say he was both British and Irish, in a way that was more possible then than now, perhaps. --Guinnog 21:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Many Irish served in ww2 and well as ww1 i wouldnt say that makes him british . I'm not convinced about this British and Irish thing . Without trying to sound too board sweeping many Irish people are claimed to be British when their is no link at all . (Gnevin 21:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC))

Have you tried NALA? Worth surfing. Millbanks (talk) 22:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I don't think Milligan was one of them. Plenty of links. --Guinnog 21:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Shouldnt we go on what he said himself ? (Gnevin 22:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC))
What was that? --Guinnog 22:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not british i'm irish (Gnevin 22:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC))

Can you source that? --Guinnog 22:19, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[4] and [5] . This quote was also seen in The Comedian's Comedian (Gnevin 22:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC))

he went to Ireland twice in his life - he was 28 before he set foot there. Only his Father was Irish, and he didn't have an Irish passport. He NEVER lived in Ireland. He was one of those "more Irish than the Irish" sorts who knew fuck all about Ireland. What makes him Irish?--Crestville 00:56, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Though he lived most of his life in England and served in the British Army, he was refused a British passport in 1960, having been born outside Britain to an Irish father, Leo Milligan, who was born and raised in the working class area of Holborn Street, Sligo in Ireland. Milligan took Irish citizenship instead and never forgave the British Government. Atleast read the articial that and he said so himself ? (Gnevin 11:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC))
he went to Ireland twice in his life Can you source that ? (Gnevin 12:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC))
(I'm not British, English, Irish or even American so hopefully you'll take this as a nuetral comment) Although born in India, his up bringing is British, his humour developed in a British context (army), he played before a British audience on British radio and TV, he lived in Britian ... his humour ridiculed many aspects of British society and government.
Perhaps look to Albert Einstein born German, gained Swiss citizenship, gained Prussian citizenship, gained American citizenship. He's in categories of German physicist, Swiss physicist, and Jewish-American scientists. The categories aren't some kind of exclusive claim upon a persons body and sole, it seems quite reasonable to classify Spike as a British Comedian just as you could have classified him as a British Soldier. Yes he fits into the Irish categories as well. And I suppose if the Indians want to claim him too .... :-). If only he'd applied for a passport before the war ... maybe he would have avoided conscription and ... ohh, the loss to humanity! :-) --AGoon 08:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with Crestville regarding his claims to be Irish. Also, regarding the text of this Wikipedia article and its tone, I wonder if it was written by an Australian. In my experience, Australians tend to be a bit more uncritical of Milligan and forgiving of his unpleasant characteristics, there's a more objective view of him in Britain and in Ireland.Dolmance 17:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

By all means add a paragraph about his Irishness or otherwise and his unpleasant side (with references ;-). As for the second comment, I think it is a gross generalisation - there are both critical and sympathetic biographies about him from Britian and it would seem the sympathetic ones outweigh the critical ones. (PS I'm not Australian, nor did I write the article :-) --AGoon 19:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
If you really need proof of his unpleasantness, look here: http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/biography/0,,1015466,00.html And, I'm afraid, Australians are nice people but they're the only race on the face of the planet who still repeat the Goon Show. In Britain, it's a regularly expressed view that nobody under sixty finds it funny.Dolmance 17:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Proof? Where ? :-) That's the opinion of one reviewer who states from the outset that he dislikes the Goons and Milligan. There must be few fifty year old radio shows that are still regularly aired anywhere, the Goons have had remarkable longevity and there is a streaming internet radio program that plays them continuously. They are still regularly played on the BBC internet site. I'm sure that in Britian there are people that regulary express the view that going into Iraq was a good idea ... that fact doesn't actually mean much ;-). So by all means add to the article, but try to find researched sources (eg interviews of people who had immediate contact with him) rather than on lookers from afar. --AGoon 09:36, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

So what nationality was his mother? 62.31.69.202 00:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

  • What does his mother's nationality matter? Don't you know that on O'Wikipedia "Irish" trumps everything?! ;o) 86.17.211.191 23:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The following quote 'refused a British passport in 1960....because he refused to take the oath of allegiance, despite advice from Prince Charles' seems to imply that a 12 year old Prince Charles advised him to take the oath of allegiance to gain a passport. Whoever originally wrote that line should correct it, source it, or delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.51.84.113 (talk) 17:58, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Debrett's "People of Sussex" (1991) says that Mr Milligan was the son of Capt L A Milligan "and Florence Winifred, née Kettleband; 4 generations RA including Indian Mutiny". I'm not sure how Spike Milligan became a Person of Sussex. His address is given as 9, Orme Square, London W2 (plus London telephone number), though he's buried at Winchelsea so presumably lived there or nearby. Millbanks (talk) 22:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Come on people, you should all know by now that the answer to every question on Wikipedia is either "Apple" or "Irish". Don't fight it because you will not win. Daniel Day Lewis? Irish and British. The Edge? Irish (I quote from an edit war: "Birthplace and bloodline is irrelevant, he's lived there ages"). Spike Milligan? Irish. Mohammed Ali? Irish-American. One Irish antecedant 300 years ago among a hundred others? Irish. Born in Ireland and left, never to return? Irish. Born in Britain, but lived in Ireland a while? Irish. Born in Britain and never set foot in Ireland but have an Irish-sounding name and reddish hair? Irish. Eddie Murphy? Irish-American (I quote from an edit war: "But Murphy is an Irish name!") Etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. 86.17.211.191 (talk) 18:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Superfluous Linking

Sorry, but I'm on a little bit of a crusade against wiki-links that just seem to be there because there is also an entry in wikipedia to link to eg [[piano]] [[noise]] [[troops]] [[play]] [[radio]] [[author]][[drama]][[children]] [[poem]] [[song]][[fax]]. I assume readers have a reasonable grasp of the english language but may not understand particular British references, and so may appreciate a link to more info occasionally. Also more wiki-links to things that expand upon the facts being stated.
(Again, sorry for the rave ;-) --AGoon 07:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

No references? Is this wikipedia? I've started by marking a few bits that (although well known to Milliganites) need to be sourced. --AGoon 07:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Badjelly the Witch

Hello, I've just come on Wikipedia to search for some info on Badjelly The Witch, either the book or a play adaptation, but I can't find any mention of it, not even here under Spike's own entry. Surely this is one of his most famous children's books, and should at least be listed. A separate entry would I think be easily justified too. (I suppose I could do it myself, although perhaps someone else knows more about it than I do.) Genedecanter 23:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes a great oversight, there are now four wikipedia pages linking to Badjelly the Witch so please create a page for it (just start by clicking on the link). I'm sure if you start the page others will add what they know :-). There is a copy of the book at http://william.torkington.com/badjelly/. --AGoon 23:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia element removed

I removed the section that stated "According to the first volume of his war memoirs, Milligan was almost press ganged into the Royal Air Force Regiment... Had he stayed, the history of British comedy might have been very different." I have read his memoirs several times as well as several biographies, and none of them have any mention of this story. Whats more, Milligan was in the Royal Artillery, not the Air Force. He attempted to join as a pilot at one point, but his eyesight was not good enough, and he did not want to join as a rear gunner. 69.156.36.140 17:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know the veracity of the story, but note that the quote says "almost press-ganged into the RAF Regiment" which could either be read as that he joined the RAF Regt voluntarily, or, consistent with his known history, wasn't in the RAF Regiment at all. -- Arwel (talk) 17:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, the wikipedia standard that encyclopedic content must be attributable to a reliable source, which this story isn't. This story does not appear in any of his volumes of war memoirs, and nothing similar is ever mentioned in any other biography. He was drafted into the Royal Artillery, and not the RAF. What it more likely is that the author of this story may have mistaken Milligan for Peter Sellers, fellow Goon, and RAF Airman. 64.231.197.197 15:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, all, but I have to agree with 69.156.36.140 on this one. In the book "Adolf Hitler: My Part in his Downfall" it clearly states that Milligan attempted to join the RAF, but his poor eyesight ("night blindness") meant that he was only offered the position of rear gunner.Paul-b4 14:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and that is not what press ganging is. 69.156.37.116 11:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Given that most RAF rear-gunners in WWII served aboard night-bombers, I suspect this may have been a joke. Drutt 01:37, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spike was great but...

...there's no mention here of his (alleged)racism. Actually no, it was more than alleged. Sketches like the Pakistani Dalek (it ends with someone saying "now you know what's wrong with the country!") show this unpleasant aspect of his work. Sad but true I'm afraid. Totnesmartin 20:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget his TV show Curry and Chips--Crestville 20:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I had, until now! Anyway, perhaps a little something in the controversy section? Totnesmartin 20:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
It's true that Spike expressed racist views but I never felt they were particularly heartfelt or unusual for someone of his age. His humanitarian side outweighed them in any case in my opinion. In the context of British comedy the sorts of characters he played were unremarkable, and could hardly said to form the core of his humour. Viewed from a current day perspective that kind of racism quite rightly seems shocking, but I think this says more about the major changes that have happened over the the last twenty years, than anything about Spike. Dean Morrison 11:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Maybe you're right. But still, this needs to be in the article - his views and their context. Totnesmartin 14:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
just went to the Alf Garnett article to see if that would help - but not much about the historical context of racism there either. Ho hum. Totnesmartin 14:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
suppose it's fair enough to have something in this article, as long as it's proportionate, and gives historical context - was there any comedian that didn't use racial and gender stereotypes in the sixties and early seventies?? Dean Morrison 12:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Just a thought... Wasn't Curry and Chips actually written by Johnny Speight? Some view Speight's work as racist, although many point out that it actually mocks bigotry rather than minorities. TV "Racism" was more pronounced in the 60's and 70's (see the Black and White Minstrel Show, Love Thy Neighbour, etc); I think that Spike's attitude to race at that time should be viewed in this context. Also, as I recall, the "Pakistani Dalek" was actually married to a white woman... Paul-b4 08:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Monty python influence

I've noticed that whether Spike influenced Monty Python is a disputed point, and I'd like to point out that Spike is listed in the Monty Python article as an influence starting here in April. Lisatwo 03:17, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spike's Irishness

I've just added info about Spike's funeral, and the Daily Telegraph source has a superb photo of his tricolour draped coffin. I also added the wording of a letter he wrote to the Irish Times in 1998 stating that he was Irish and in favour of Irish reunification. 86.42.119.173 (talk) 07:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Someone seems to have deleted your quote from the Irish Times letter (I've had one or two Irish Times quotes deleted too; I'm not sure why). Anyhow, it seems that in spite of a Roman Catholic education, Mr Milligan had an Anglican burial. Did he convert to the Church of Ireland? Millbanks (talk) 17:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)