Talk:Special education

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[edit] A Few Questions

Sorry, I actually don't know where else to ask this, but can one be in an IEP and still take Advanced Placement classes? Is that LRE? It would seem that slight learning disabilities such as dyslexia or even ADD wouldn't prevent children from doing such things. Learning disabilities are nowhere as restrictive as mental retardation, I wouldn't think, so it wouldn't be required that a child be put in any sort of special classes, am I right?

Suggestions for future additions.

  • historical background of special education
  • federal law/legal precidents especially ADA, IDEA, FERPA, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, etc
  • Parents rights/advocacy
  • Funding as provided by Federal Law v. actual funding provided


To answer your question about having an IEP and being inadvanced classes yes it is possible. I my self from 3rd grade to 5th grade was in the second to top class which was called the Tag program (talented and Gifted students) from 6th - 8th i would have havd an IEP if the person doing my reevaluation when i was in 6th grade bothered to even finish my evaluation. (she started it but saw i had such a high score she said i was too smart for special ed but if she would of continued the test she would have kept me in. The whole reason i was placed in special ed was because of a large discrepancy between my verbal IQ and my Performance IQ she tested me in the verbal part and barely went into the performance part of the test) but i still recieved a 504 instead of an IEP though and continued in advanced classes untill highschool

[edit] I added another section......

I added another section for people who would like to express an opinion about special education. I know this is an encyclopedia not to express opinions. I felt that the opinions are also important too. Isn't it important to hear what previous or current special education students have to say about it?

[edit] I added another section......

I added another section for people who would like to express an opinion about special education. I know this is an encyclopedia not to express opinions. I felt that the opinions are also important too. Isn't it important to hear what previous or current special education students have to say about it?

(Kyla 21:32, 18 August 2005 (UTC))

Sorry, Kyla, I'm going to have to revert your addition. The problem is that you expressed a personal opinion in a fashion that is more appropriate for a blog, a social networking site like MySpace, or a Wikicities site. Because Wikipedia purports to be an encyclopedia, it can only summarize existing opinions already published in other sources about an issue.
If you want to get partisan opinions about special education onto Wikipedia in a way that complies with the "no soapbox," neutral point of view (NPOV), and "no original research" policies, you would have to research the existing literature and then quote or cite published articles on both sides. That would be acceptable. For example, look at how the Freeway article (which I have contributed a great deal to, both in terms of pictures and text) summarizes pro-freeway and anti-freeway positions and cites several sources in major newspapers and academic journals.
If you have no idea how to start, try reading Wikipedia:How_to_write_a_great_article. --Coolcaesar 04:05, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] derogatory terms

Is there any need for this section to be included at all, as an encylopaedia entry I feel that this is uneccessary. Any comments? --Brideshead 19:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC) Noted that it's been deleted, glad i'm not the only one to feel it was out of place. --Brideshead 11:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Worldwide view

In terms of representing a worldwide view of special education I feel that the section on the United States is massively too long and detailed. I have heavily cut it down to a basic outline allowing other countries the room to write about their system and have created a new article Special Education in the United States to carry the full original USA section which is very detailed and comprehensive. --Brideshead 11:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seems a bit biased

I dunno, but reading this page, the allusions to nazi germany and eugenics seem to promote a specific point of view on this?

I agree, hence I have added the verify tag and tagged the offender. Skinnyweed 23:23, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed "Acronyms" section

I removed the Acronyms section because it seemed to bloat the article; it would be better to link to such a list externally or at least split it off to its own article. It also seemed arbitrary: why acronyms in particular instead of a general glossary? - furrykef (Talk at me) 18:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] in class suppport

I originally removed this section as I fail to see the import, however have reworded it to a more general statement of additional support. The method of implementation and terminology used for support for learning in mainstream varies from school to school, region to region and country to country. --Brideshead 23:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] revert

  • Special education is the education of physically or mentally handicapped students whose needs cannot be met in an ordinary classroom

I reverted this edit. it is an over simplification using language (handicapped, ordinary) which are considered inappropriate, even offensive in some areas. --Brideshead 11:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I also deleted the section on "Diagnosis" As it was an overly-detailed list of tests, which are a selection of the thousands available. The ones discussed may be prevelant in some jurisdictions (the US) but not in all. I added the section to the article Special Education in the United States --Brideshead 16:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted the alteration again. In some areas it may be common usage but in the UK and elsewhere the term "handicapped" is a very offensive term which is NEVER used in acedemic or official writing and situations. Stating that "it" has recently expanded to include gifted students is meaningless. Special Education is not controlled by a central body, this statement does not apply a worldwide view. I work in Scotland which has recently stopped using the term Special Needs in favour of Additional Support Needs, however I am not trying to edit the whole article. That would not represent a worldwide view. Please try not revert this again without discussing your reasons here. --Brideshead 20:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] REVERT INTRO

  • 'Special education' is an educational alternative to the general education for those having singular needs or disabilities, as handicapped or maladjusted people, slow learners, or gifted children.

Oh my goodness, this is even worse! The appalling "handicapped" is back and now coupled with the even more offensive "maladjusted". I don't understand the need to change it at all. Perhaps if you could explain your reasons here, they could be discussed and a compromise reached. As it is this wording is unacceptable and highly, highly offensive. --Brideshead 20:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

REVERT 28th November. - unsigned edit.

I am not disputing the veracity of your amendments, or your sources of American dictionaries and research institutions. However, as my poiunts above make clear the wordds used in this introduction are disgusting, inflamatory, offensive and, in the UK and other cultures, completely unnaceptable. Words like 'handicapped' and 'maladjusted' are unacceptable. Please discuss this issue here. --Brideshead 19:57, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

That's your opinion. Special education is not an educational alternative. A student who qualifies for special education cannot say that they don't want to be in it. If they can, then I agree it is an alternative. But it is not. A student cannot refuse special education. It's either you qualify or you don't. I understand that handicapped sounds offensive. What if we used disabled instead? Would that be better? You edit twice. Why did you go back to your original one? The one you edit was just fine. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

Actually, in the U.S. the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act allows for due process, so parents, or any child over the age of 18, can refuse the services provided. Sarahatau 12:12, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I concede, although do not agree with your point as Alternative does not always imply choice; a vegetarian alternative to the main meal does not give the vegetarian a choice, it simply meets their needs, however it is irrelevant now. I have further edited the intro to read better and be slightly more elegant. --Brideshead 20:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Mainstreaming is a term for special education. Regular students are not in a mainstreamed classroom. They are in an ordinary classroom. Disabled and slow learners have exceptional disabilities while maladjusted people and gifted children have exceptional needs. There is a difference. Gifted children are smart. they don't have a disability...they need to be in a separate classroom because they have exceptional needs that cannot be met in an ordinary classroom. Maladjusted people are those who underachieve but do not have a disability. They just have difficulty being in the school. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

[edit] World Wide Viewpoint

These may all be valid definitions for the area in which YOU live, however these definitions are not the same everywhere. Wikipedia is an international encyclopaedia. Mainstream is the general education provided as standard to all pupils without modifications it has nothing to do with special education. All children have Additional needs of some kinds, the difference between exceptional disabilities and exceptional needs is only valid in your jurisdiction not worldwide. The term maladjusted is little known/used in the UK, except as a derogatory term. Please bear in mind that this is NOT an American encyclopaedia. --Brideshead 21:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reason for merger

Without special education, inclusion would not be possible. Special education helps the disabled student function in the regular school. So that’s why I think that inclusion should be merged with special education. (69.117.20.128 - Talk)

[edit] introduction

This is an encyclopaedia. The introduction must be clear and unambiguous, stating general facts, not related to a particular (US) jurisdiction. I've rewritten this intro as it was a mess of someones pet viewpoints which would be unintelligble to a casual reader. --Brideshead 16:32, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Re-revert and edit. This is an article on special education, NOT inclusion. Phrases such as "on a happier note" and "contrary to popular belief" belong in a 15 year olds essay, not an encyclopaedia. --Brideshead 18:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Please stop the revert war immediately. Bring your disagreements here for further discussion before any more editing. Nposs 20:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

These articles were merged without any consultation. The introduction is now a discuss on inclusion in America. Someone coming to an article to find out about special education will not be any the wiser by this introduction. it should be clear and succinct. At the moment it is unstructred, amateurish and off-putting. --Brideshead 20:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Other countries have special education...it's not just America...Special education is educational programs designed to support students whose singular needs or disabilities require special teaching approaches, equipment, or care within or outside a regular classroom. Special education is known as programs of inclusion. Special education tries to include students with special needs with those that do not have special needs...It's perfectly neutral. If special education wasn't available, than inclusion would be impossible for students with special needs to be in the mainstream school. That's why there is special education to help them be more included in the mainstream school. Does that not make sense? (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

There seems to be a confusion of terms here, though. I don't see any problem with your first sentence: "Special education is education programs ..." (although I don't like the use of the singular "is" with the plural "programs"). Your second sentence is confusing: "Special education is known as programs of inclusion." It isn't really true - special education has its own history which has now become intertwined with inclusive education. Inclusion (from what I can tell) seems to be a methodology within special education and at this point in time "inclusive education" might be the preferred term for what was formerly known as "special education" - but there really needs to be some citational support for this, not just statements. Also, the Frank Bowe material really is not appropriate for the first paragraph. It is too specific, and like it or not, it does represent single point of view. The "happier note" thing as well really does have to go. Nposs 21:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by singular? Special education was never an inclusive education. Inclusive means it fully includes students with special needs...it doesn't...therefore...it's just inclusion...there is a difference....there's a reason why inclusive education is a separate article. Inclusive education is not the preferred term for special education. Inclusive education is whole different concept. It is not universally accepted among schools. And that is a fact. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

But you are the one who added the "singular" according to this. What comment are you responding to? Nposs 21:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Also, if inclusion cannot be equated with special education, why do you insist upon making it so prominent in opening paragraph. Isn't inclusion just one method among many in special education? Nposs 21:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

if you look up singular in the dictionary...you will find that it has many meanings....inclusion and inclusive have different meanings..Inclusion is the act of including...Special education includes students with special needs with those who do not...inclusive means including everything. Students with special needs are not included in everything. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

I've lost track of what your point is. this argument is going in circles. The article is about special education, not inclusion/inclusive education. i agree with nposs's statements. The Frank Bowe material is of very narrow application, the "on ahappier note is completely subjective and not neutral tone. I think the comments are not exploring the issue of special edcucation. --Brideshead 22:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Special education is inclusion education because it includes students with special needs but they still have to attend special education. Special education is not inclusive education because it doesn't includes them fully in the school. I hope you understand what I'm saying now....cause I have been repeating it over and over....What could you not understand? (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

I think your point is understood. However, we really need some sort of reference or citation to support your assertion. Otherwise, at least to me, it appears to be original research (see WP:OR). Do you have any such reference you can supply? Also, am I wrong in suggesting that inclusion is only one methodology among many employed in special education? (Also, please reconsider the tone of your contributions to the discussion. There is no need to be impatient or condescending.) Nposs 18:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I am not impatient. I am very calm. It's just when people say I'm wrong...i tend to be a little sensitive. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

This section is still HEAVILY biased in favour of inclusion instead of general special education; it is overly specific. it also contains multiple references to US-only information whcih is not appropriate in the introduction to a worldwide article. I think this needs moderation to rectify. --Brideshead 18:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Can you be more specific about the information you feel is lacking from the article. For example: section headings, methodology, theories, etc.? Nposs 19:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Special education is inclusion. Without special education, inclusion for students with special needs would be impossible. Do you agree with this? (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

I think we need to be more careful with this terminology. "Inclusion" has a specific definition in special education and can be contrasted with "Mainstreaming" and "Full inclusion" (reference). According to the 1997 IDEA, inclusion is legally required except in cases where "the nature and severity of the disability is such that education in the regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily." ([1]) That is to say, there are other methodlogies in teaching students with special needs. According to these two articles ([2] and [3]) there is still debate about the extent to which "inclusion" is the appropriate teaching method for all students. This point of view also needs to be expressed in the article (as part of WP:NPOV). At the same time, this information is very specific to the US and this Wikipedia article should also reflect the diversity of approaches found in other countries. (I have no resources about this at the moment.) Nposs 20:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that it is fine to discuss these issues in depth in the appropriate section (one on the US) they do not belong in the introduction which needs to be general, clear and succinct. Special Education is not the same as inclusion. Special education can be provided in schools specifically for children with special needs. Inclusion is one approach to dealing with this and is not adhered to or followed on the same way in all jurisdictions. This very specific information is unsuitable for an introduction. --Brideshead 22:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] recent changes

"Special education is educational programs designed to support students whose singular needs or disabilities require special teaching approaches, equipment, or care within or outside a regular classroom. Special education is known as programs of inclusion. Inclusion is the practice in special education of placing students with singular needs or disabilities into the general classrooms of elementary and secondary schools, either all or most of the time. This is to help students with special needs adjust as quickly as possible to the mainstream of the school and community. Contrary to popular belief, students are not fully into the "mainstream" of student life because they are secluded to special education. On a happier note, inclusive education includes all individuals in all aspects of school-life. However, the concept of an inclusive education is not universally accepted."

Students with singular needs or disabilities deviate from the norm. Regular students do not have singular needs or disabilities. Regular students may have additional needs. Students with singular needs or disabilities require special teaching approaches, equipment, or care within or outside a regular classroom. Within means "push in" services provided by professionals that enter the classroom and deliver assistance there. Outside the regular classroom means they are pulled out of the classroom. Special education is known as programs of inclusion because students with special needs are being included inside the mainstream school. This is to help them adjust as quickly as possible to the mainstream of the school and community. But they are not fully included because they are secluded to special education. That’s when inclusive education comes in….inclusive education is not universally accepted…as it is stated in the article…it means schools no longer provide "regular education" and "special education" but provide a service which includes every child, no matter what he or she needs at the time. In other words, they are educating everyone together. Do you understand now? (69.117.20.128 - Talk)

We could avoid the problems of the definition of "inclusion" by modifying your paragraph from above (because, as you note in your first sentence, special education may take place within or outside regular classroom where inclusion would take place) -
"Special education is consists of educational programs designed to support students whose singular needs or disabilities require special teaching approaches, equipment, or care within or outside a regular classroom. Special education is known as programs of inclusion. Today, this is frequently implemented by placing students with singular needs or disabilities into the general classrooms of elementary and secondary schools, either all or most of the time. (Note: This second sentence is actually redundant because it is implied by the first sentence. It really could just be left out (of course it would be described in more detail later in the article. The rest of the material seems more appropriate for later in the article as well.) Nposs 03:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't like the frequently part...special education is including them. (69.117.20.128 - Talk)

i feel we are making some progress. however the phrasing of "contrary to popular belief" is not suitable for an encyclopaedia as it assumes that there is a generally held view. The phrSING "ON A HAPPIER NOTE" is very innappropriate and extremely POV implying that special education is miserable unless inclusive education is followed. I also feel that the intro does not cover the situation of children who are not and cannot be educated in the mainstream; those at special schools. --Brideshead 15:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I also have concerns with the phrase "singluar disabilities" as I have worked with children with additional support needs for several years and have never come across it. Does it mean that children have only one disability or is it implying specific needs? Again jursidiction specific terminology.--Brideshead 15:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Like I said before, singular needs or disabilities means those people who deviate from the norm. Singular in this case means exceptional....regular people may have additional needs but they do not have singular needs or disabilities..I don't understand your recent changes....you changed outside to outwith. i don't get that....special needs students receive special help within or outside the regular classroom. outside the regular classroom is when they receive pull out services as well as attending general education classes. Special education is all about giving special help to special needs students in order for them to function in regular classrooms....it says so in the first sentence....the regular classroom..Special schools don't have special education because they don't have regular classrooms there. Special school is only for people with special educational needs. Regular students couldn't go to a special school. Therefore special education is only carried out within or outside the regular classroom.
  • Special education can be implemented by placing students with singular needs or disabilities into the general classrooms, either all or most of the time. [citation needed]
Special education IS implemented by placing students with singular needs or disabilities into the general classrooms, either all or most of the time. This is to help students with special needs adjust as quickly as possible to the mainstream of the school and community. That is a fact...because special education helps the special needs students become part of the mainstream of the school and community...A special school does not because everyone there has special educational needs. Those people don't get the chance to be with nondisabled students. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)
You may feel like your point above is obvious, but keep in mind: inclusion, full inclusion, mainstreaming, etc. (as well as tailor-made instruction outside of regular classrooms) are all different methods within the general field of special education. This is an encyclopedic article - meaning that it should take a broad view of the subject which includes a variety of view points. To assert that "special education IS implemented by including students ..." limits what special education is or has been historically. I have provided references to support this in my above statements. Without proper references/citations, your statement constitutes original research (something that should not be included - see WP:OR). I think we are very close in agreement over what special education is, but I ask you to please consider a broader view of what the field is made up of. It is not unreasonable to request that references should be provided for strong statements like "special education IS ...". I also ask that you be more patient with the discussion here. It takes time to reach consensus. Nposs 22:01, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
As a teacher, I'd question the idea that special education is implemented by placing a student anywhere. It's not the placement that defines special ed; it's the service given. Those services are given in the least restrictive environment, sure, and that's a discussion that can happen on the LRE page or in the LRE section. RyanGrant 06:29, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Again, I would stress that singular needs holds that meaning...for you that is not necessarily a wildly held definition or view. The article is special education. NOT special education in mainstream classrooms so i believe that special edcuation provided in special schools does need to be mentioned. I changed outside to outwith as a purely grammatical preference as it sounds better. please do try to bear in mind that this is a community and we all have a right to edit this article will change and evolve, it will not stay as you intend it; that is the point of wikipedia. Your ascertation that special education in mainstream classes is to help students adjust quickly is NOT a fact. it is one outcome, one of a thousand possible reasons for including children and is entirely your point of view, which does not corrrelate with everyone elses. Other people have knowledge, experience and interest in this area remember; their views need to be incorporated into this article, even if they do not find within the small inclusion/inclusive area you have your mind fixed upon. --Brideshead 01:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Could we pick another word besides "outwith" or "outside" (or maybe just rephrase the sentence)? This is an international encyclopedia and no one I know in the US ever uses the term "outwith" (in fact, I think it would confuse most people. Nposs 16:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] clarification

I understand that inclusion; full inclusion, mainstreaming, etc. (as well as tailor-made instruction outside of regular classrooms) are all different methods within the general field of special education. I just need to clarify one thing. A special school is a school catering to students who have special educational needs. Therefore, special schools do not have regular classrooms. A regular classroom consists of students who do not have special educational needs. Special education is only provided when there are regular classrooms inside the school. Special schools don’t have regular classrooms; therefore special education is not provided there. And what does outwith mean? I looked it up in the dictionary and there’s no such word. I don't understand why the article can't state "outside" the regular classroom...it's just saying that services can be provided outside the regular classroom. That includes special classes and resource room. (69.117.20.128 - Talk)

I have no problem with the removal of outwith if it's a specifically British English word, see here[4] for clarification on the word which, 69.117.20.128 does indeed exist. I do however dispute your definition of special education above. Special education is simply education which is tailored to meet specific needs. The term does not imply anything about taking place only in the context of "regular" teaching. 'Special Education in mainstream' more fits the usage you are trying to construct. --Brideshead 11:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

As mainstreaming is but one type of special education, I do not support writing that "special education is implemented by placing students with singular needs or disabilities into the general classrooms". Although the "can be implemented" version is an acceptable compromise, it would be preferable to remove the sentence from the introduction. Specific approaches to special education can be discussed further down in the article sections. Rhobite 01:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Inclusive education should also be moved from the opening introduction. Perhaps the best solution would be to add a separate section in the article title "Methodologies" or "Methods" or something like that. That would be an appropriate place to discuss some of the terms above. Nposs 03:44, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] recent changes

I deleted the part that says "Special education can be implemented by placing students with singular needs or disabilities into the general classrooms, either all or most of the time". I feel that this part isn't necessary because it already says this before. that Special ed. is carried out in regular classrooms. it's silly to repeat it twice. I also added within or outside and described what it meant. I put push in services for within and pull out services for outside. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

I cannot stand it...outside makes more sense....i don't understand specialized setting......i think you should compromise with me...because I cannot understand what it says when it says specialized setting. "outside of the classroom" is not a problematic expression because it is simply stating the fact that special needs students receive specialized services in special classrooms if it is impossible to mainstream the student. (69.117.20.128 - Talk)

"Outside of the classroom" is problematic because it doesn't explain "where" outside of a classroom. We need something more specific. Like it or not, many schools offer designated spaces/resources/staff for special needs students (many people even view this as a way to complement "mainstreaming"). As we have already discussed, mainstreaming is one method among many in special education. So can we come up with something more descriptive for these settings than "outside of a classroom" or "specialized setting"? Nposs 14:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Special needs students receive special teaching approaches, equipment, or care outside the regular classroom. How could you not understand this statement? It's clear. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)
"Compromise" does not mean "get your way." The wording was reached through a slow process of discussion and cooperation. Changing it without contributing to that discussion and allowing other editors to discuss the change violates the process by which articles are built on Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia:Consensus. It is one of the most important guidelines on Wikipedia. If you do not like the term "specialized setting" - explain why you don't like it on this talk page and propose an alternative stating why you believe it is an improvement. Allow time for other editors to discuss it, add their opinions, and potentially change it. Consensus does not mean that everyone comes to the same conclusion - rather, it means that an outcome is reached that all can agree with. It has already been discussed that "outside of the classroom" is a problematic expression. Please keep in mind, Wikipedia is not a battle ground WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground. Nposs 02:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the edit as it was unecessary and served to confuse the matter further. It did not make the issue "more clearer" [sic] --Brideshead 20:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Outside the regular classroom is the better one..

"Outside the regular classroom" is very clear to many people. It's not a consensus when there are only two people who agree. (RainingmySoul 19:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC))

Outside implies that we are still within the same building as the regular classroom; it brings connotations of perched on a stool in a hallway colouring in! The situation we are trying to describe could be in other classes, support for learning classes special schools, etc. In other words, many different situations. --www.secularism.org.uk 19:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

yes...that what special education is all about....that's why there is mainstreaming...mainstreaming is all about educating students in the same building. Special schools do not have special education because they don't have regular classrooms. If you clicked on special school, they will tell you that it is a school catering to students who have special educational needs...therefore they don't have regular classrooms...do you see what i mean? I still see that saying "outside" is clearer..People would know that special education is only provided when there are regular classrooms. It makes sense too. please compromise with me...special schools don't have special education because they don't have regular classrooms. Normal students could not attend special schools. i am changing it back...there was never a consensus. You only want to write what you want to hear. But the truth is special schools don't have regular classrooms. If you don't agree with this fact, then I don't know what else to do. (RainingmySoul 20:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)) (RainingmySoul 20:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC))

I do see what you mean but I don't agree with your ascertations. Special schools do provide special education, that is ALL that they do. What you are talking about is an individualised education in mainstream. --www.secularism.org.uk 20:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree with your ascertations. So why do we have to follow your idea? It even says on dictionary.com Definition of special education. Education of disabled students whose needs cannot be met in a regular classroom--i don't like the word ordinary...We can all agree that special schools don't have regular classroom. (RainingmySoul 20:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


I don't agree. You have included this phrase Special schools do not provide special education because they don't have regular classrooms several times. i disagree with this completely. Providing a special education is all that special schools do. What they do not provide is an inclusive education.

I think that if we cannot agree on outside (my reasons for disagreeing with this are clearly stated above) or special school/specialised setting then we should remove the sentence completely. --www.secularism.org.uk 20:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

So are you saying that special schools have regular classrooms? If they do, then normal students can attend special schools. That doesn't make sense. Normal students do not have special educational needs. Therefore they cannot attend special schools. (RainingmySoul 20:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC))

I don't understand your statement. I state that special schools provide special education. That is education particularised for individual children. I have never mentioned regular classrooms. i don't understand your standpoint that special education can only be provided when in contrast to a regular education int he same building. Special schools provide a specialised education for children, they do not provide 'regular' education, nor do they need to. I don't understand your view.--www.secularism.org.uk 20:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] complete change?

This is an introduction from a NZ government website. i think it is well written and concise. It summarises the basics of what special education is and does not mention locality. it is also a neutral government for this disagreement as it is not from UK or US? --www.secularism.org.uk 20:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

That's copy violation. Copying word to word of it....mine on the other hand has the source...and it doesn't copy word to word...i put it into my own words...except the singular needs or disabilities part...but that's okay....it's not like i copied the whole thing...i merged the two definitions...(RainingmySoul 21:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC))

A complete change might be helpful if we keep in mind that the point of consensus is to reach a solution that all parties can abide by. That means (for example) removing elements that we cannot agree upon. I think Brideshead has provided some good supporting references for some changes that can be shaped into a very strong opening paragraph. I find that the text is still to similar to that of the NZ website. Also, I don't see how the other external links support/reference the material. Could you be more specific about what you have drawn from those sites? I also believe that it would be appropriate to mention the importance of "inclusion," since (as has been discussed to death already) this is one of the primary methods of implementing special education. I'll make some changes. Feel free to alter them (with constructive criticisms, please - do not use edit summaries for inappropriate insults or non-constructive asides.) Nposs 04:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I've made some changes and I encourage you to discuss what you feel is unnecessary and what is missing before simply adding it back in. Please use references to reliable sources and maintain a civil attitude. I think we can work together to really improve this important article, but we have to be willing to lay aside a sense of personal attachment to the subject. By the way, I have temporarily removed the remaining external links added by Brideshead - these might be appropriate to add as references when it is clear what they reference. I also removed the last sentence about gifted students and bullied students. It might be appropriate for the paragraph, but I'd like to see a reference about it first. Thanks. Nposs 05:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • This article will focus mainly on the teaching of students with singular disabilities.

I don't think that this sentence adds anything. The paragraph makes it very clear that we are discussing disabled students. This sentence reads like it intending to remove some confusion? I think it unnecessary. --www.secularism.org.uk 19:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we should add it because...this article is mainly about students with disabilities...it doesn't mention anything about gifted children...or those with singular needs. (RainingmySoul 19:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

I am concerned about the terminology "singular disabilities". I don't find it used in any of the literature I have found. Can you please provide a reference for this usage? Some students might suffer from multiple disabilities - and in my mind, "singular disability" would suggest that only one disability is addressed through special education. Nposs 20:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the sentence about the "focus" of the article. Education of gifted students does not fall under "special education" and if you feel like the article has too much emphasis on "disabilities" rather than "special needs", the solution should be to add the content - not limit the scope of the article through a statement of "focus". Nposs 20:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Singular means exceptional...it doesn't mean only one kind of disability. (RainingmySoul 20:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC))
Thanks for the definition. But can you provide a reference for this usage. I think it is unfamiliar to most people and I have not found "singular disability" in any literature I have consulted. Nposs 20:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Look it up in the dictionary. I used that word because it best describes their special needs. It is exceptional. (RainingmySoul 22:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC))
I think the term might be useful in other contexts, but since you came up with it yourself, it constitutes "original research" (WP:OR#No_original_research) and should be removed from the article and replaced by a more appropriate term. I notice that the reference you supplied below uses the term children with "special educational needs". It also uses the term "children with disabilities". These could work as replacements. Nposs 23:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
It is not original research. I placed the reference up. (69.117.20.128 - talk)

[edit] what is wrong with this line?

Universal special education services is the subject of some discussion internationally. This has led to the inclusive education movement.

I added this line because this has to do with inclusive education. (RainingmySoul 19:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Why?

Special education consists of educational programs designed to support students whose singular needs or disabilities require special teaching approaches, equipment, or care within or outside a regular classroom.

Why can't we use this opening paragraph? I don't see anything wrong with it...How can special schools provide special education if they don't even have regular classrooms? Special education is named because there were students who deviate from the norm in the mainstream schools. That's why they decided to name it special education to help those people become part of the mainstream. Special schools do not help students with special needs adjust as quickly as possible to the mainstream of the school and community because they don't have regular classrooms. (RainingmySoul 20:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

I don't think you are taking into consideration the history of special education which has included (and continues to include) education in specialized settings outside of the regular classroom. "Mainstream" has a very specific meaning in special education: "Generally, mainstreaming has been used to refer to the selective placement of special education students in one or more "regular" education classes."reference. This is a general article and should take a overview of the subject. Due to your concern over placing an empahsis on inclusion, I added the sentence about the United States and the requirement by law that children be taught in the least restrictive environment. Nposs 20:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Show me one reference that the purpose of special education is to help children with special needs fit into the mainstream. just one. that is not the main purpose of special education.

Special education is intended to provide the appropriate education to meet a childs needs. it has nothing, nothing to do with making htem fit into mainstream. that is your own narrow view of the subject. You are completely confused about the difference between special education, and inclusion. --www.secularism.org.uk 20:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] References

The new term 'additional support needs' The definition of 'special educational needs' traditionally only applies to children and young people with particular types of learning needs. The new concept of 'additional support needs' refers to any child or young person who, for whatever reason, requires additional support for learning. Additional support needs can arise from any factor which causes a barrier to learning, whether that factor relates to social, emotional, cognitive, linguistic, disability, or family and care circumstances. For instance, additional support may be required for a child or young person who is being bullied; has behavioural difficulties; has learning difficulties; is a parent; has a sensory or mobility impairment; is at risk; or is bereaved. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2004/06/19516/39190

A child may require additional support for a variety of reasons. These may include those who are being bullied, are particularly gifted, have experienced a bereavement, or are not attending school regularly, as well as those who have behavioural or learning difficulties, mental health problems, or specific disabilities such as deafness or blindness. http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/inclusiveeducation/additionalsupportforlearning/theact.asp


Additional support needs can be short or long term. For instance, additional support may be needed for a child or young person who:

is being bullied has behavioural or learning difficulties is deaf or blind is particularly gifted is bereaved is not a regular attender. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2004/06/19549/39372

Special education is the provision of extra help, adapted programmes, learning environments, or specialised equipment or materials to support children and young people with their learning and help them participate in education.

Many children and young people have special education needs. This can include learners with disabilities, learning difficulties, communication or behaviour difficulties, or sensory or physical impairments. http://www.minedu.govt.nz/index.cfm?layout=document&documentid=7301&data=l

If it helps, these are the four documents I used and the sections I referred too. It's worth noting that the term special needs is no longer used in Scotland as it was felt to be negative and exclusionary. --www.secularism.org.uk 21:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose of special education

Click on this link. www.cesa4.com/programs-services/special/philosophy.htm

The first paragraph says "The sole intent of special education is to insure that every eligible student has access to the general curriculum. Special education is NOT a curriculum separate from the general curriculum." Students in special schools do not have the opportunity to access to the rich core curriculum. In special schools, the curriculum is separate from the general curriculum. Therefore the purpose of special education is to help students with special needs fit into the mainstream. (RainingmySoul 21:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

It says 'a general curriculum'. it does not say where or how that needs to be implemented. A General curriculum delivered at an appropriate pace and with provisions for access is still a general curriculum as your reference clearly states. Your referenced article also makes it clear the special education is provided both by special teachers and regular teachers; implying that this organisation believes that special education is provided by special schools and regular schools.

Its a completely different thing to say that the purpose of special education is to help children integrate witht he mainstream, there is no reference for that as it is not true. --www.secularism.org.uk 22:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I find there to be a confusion of issues here. Is the issue "special schools"? This term does not appear to be mentioned anywhere in the article (it seems it was only mentioned in passing above). Whether or not "special schools" are part of "special education" does not imply one way or the other if the purpose of special education is to "mainstream" students. "Mainstreaming", as has been mentioned repeatedly, has a very specific and limited meaning in special education to suggest that the purpose of special education is to mainstream students does not follow from the references. Students may be given access to the "general curriculum" in a variety of settings and this general, encyclopedic article should cover these approaches. Nposs 23:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Special education is a term used to describe exceptional individuals in a mainstream school. Students attending special schools do not consider themselves exceptional because everyone there is ALL exceptional. How can you call a student in a special school exceptional if every student in special schools is exceptional? In special schools, there are no normal students...so how can you compare between exceptional individuals and normal students? (69.117.20.128 - Talk)
You'll need to provide a reference for this definition. Otherwise, it is "original research" WP:OR. Nposs 18:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] abbreviations

The revision from "Sped" is interpreted as an insult to Sped is comparable to "retard" is an unnecessary use of a contentious word. The revision does not add significantly to the understanding of the term and looks to be only included for "shock" value. i propose it be reverted to the original statement. --Brideshead 12:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] user 69.117.20.128

You have simply waited a while and now begun to reintroduce all of the contencious issues which were debated here above previously and an agreement reached.

  • The use of the term "singular disability" has no basis in actual research, there is no evidence of its use in published research. This was discussed previously.
  • The assertation that special education can only be provided in mainstream schools as "special schools do not have regular classrooms" (an argument which I, and others, failto follow) was discussed previously and the decision made that this is unsourced and based on your own original research WP:NOR.

This is a blatant attempt to stagnate an article at your own edit, which is clearly against WP policies. --Brideshead 13:58, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I am sick and tired of hearing that special education is only for those with disabilities. This is simply untrue. Students with singular needs are those who do not have a disability but still are having difficulty with school. For example, people with behavioral problems.

(69.117.20.128 - talk)

That is your definition and your perspective. It does not correspond to language and terminology used in references worldwide. There is no source to justify the use of the terms "singular need" or "singular disability", you just made them up, they don't mean anything to anyone else! WP:NOR --Brideshead 19:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] comment

You know, I have to agree with this user. Gifted children do not have disabilities. So where do you categorize them? They have difficulties with school. Therefore, they are part of special education. People with behavioral problems (most of them do not have disabilities) are included in special education because they have difficulty functioning in school. Is there another word you can use to describe this type of people? I know singular may not be the best word to use. But is there something else? Could we use special needs instead of saying disabilities? At least saying “special needs” is more neutral. Tell me what you think. Or anyone out there who would like to contribute to this conversation. (Heliciation 21:26, 22 April 2007 (UTC))

This has been discussed above (with lots of references provided, many of which are now used in the article.) "Singular needs" is not found in any of the literature (with the exception of the dictionary definition - which one must assume was not written by specialists). "Special needs" occurs in most of them. I would take this as evidence that "singular needs" is not a common part of the vocabulary for special education. I would also suggest that "consensus" means a solution that everyone can agree with. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that editors take exception to the unusual usage of "singular needs." It would be best if the editor who insists on this unorthodox term be willing to compromise with the other editors. Nposs 21:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
okay...so can we use the term "special needs" instead of saying disabilities? I agree with the user that special education does not include just those with disabilities. In the article, it only states those with disabilities. (Heliciation 21:56, 22 April 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Special schools do not provide special education.

Special schools do not provide special education. How can it provide special education if it doesn't have regular classrooms? Special education is to help the special needs student function in mainstream classes. In special schools, there are no mainstream classes. So how is special education provided? Someone should provide a reference stating that special education is provided in special schools.(209.177.21.6 - talk)

Please stop this type of disruptive edit warring. You are making assertions without any references or outside support. The issues on this page have unfortunately become so contentious that it is impossible to make changes without proper references from respected sources within the subject (i.e. not general dictionaries). We do not need to have the exact same discussion above again. You may believe that "special education = mainstreaming", but it has been repeatedly demonstrated that this is a narrow definition of special education inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. Your argument that special education does not include special schools is based on your own perception of the meaning of these terms - not the practice of special education as it is realized in the global context. Please do not make any more changes until you can support your arguments with reliable sources - WP:RS. Nposs 22:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Well if you just provide a reference stating that special education is provided in special schools, then maybe we wouldn't have the exact same discussion again. (69.117.20.128 - talk)

[edit] reference

I am so sick of this discussion, the statement shouldn't need a reference if you knew anything about the implementation of special edcuation. If teachers in a special school don't provide special education, what do you think they provide. But fine, here are references:

  • “Contemporary special education teaching strategies are applied across a continuum of educational settings ranging from full-time inclusive general edcuation classrooms to residential treatment facilities and community placements.” The Special Education Alamanac, pp2, Edited by Elaine Fletcher-Janzen and Cecil R. Reynolds, Published by John Wiley & Sons, Inc (2006) [5]
  • “Schools for Special Needs explains the system and processes involved in special needs education …. With details of over 2,000 establishments and guidance from experts in all sectors of special education…”. Schools for Special Needs 2005-2006 11th ed, published by Gabbitas and Kogan Page, 2005 [6] (see list of schools covered; special, mainstream and residential.)
  • Deconstructing Special Education and Constructing Inclusion by Gary Thomas and Andrew Loxley, Published by Open University Press (2001).[7] (This book uses the term special education exclusively to refer to special school settings contrasting with inclusive education.)

This ends the discussion here. Special education is provided in a huge variety of ways. You are only concerned with mainstreaming of special education, a tiny subset not the whole picture and certainly not the terminology in use in the special education community at large. --Brideshead 10:33, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new opening paragraph?

Special education describes an educational alternative that focuses on the teaching of students with academic, behavioral, health, or physical needs that cannot sufficiently be met using traditional educational programs or techniques.

Could we use this as the opening paragraph? I tend to like this one better. What do you think? I'm going to put it up in the article for you to decide which one you like better. (Angelina - talk)

Well, "Angelina" (Jessica Liao), the current opening paragraph was reached slowly and by degrees through compromise as you well know. We are all aware of your current drive to spuriously reclassify special education as alternative education as this current attempt show. I oppose the change, Special Education is not an educational alternative in the true meaning of the term, I also feel that it uses very americentric terminology (students, programs, etc.) --Brideshead 19:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

First of all I'm not Jessica. You can't assume that every user is Jessica. This is an IP address. I read the previous posts before..you wrote that "I concede, although do not agree with your point as Alternative does not always imply choice; a vegetarian alternative to the main meal does not give the vegetarian a choice, it simply meets their needs, however it is irrelevant now. I have further edited the intro to read better and be slightly more elegant."

So why are you changing your mind...that special education is not an alternative? (Angelina - talk)

Gosh, there are certainly a lot of teenage girls with an identical way of writing and an obsession for pushing the inclusive education agenda at that IP address aren't there?? Curious! --Brideshead 19:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems that the statement you propose has been copied and pasted from another source (there are several websites that use this same text.) I would agree with Brideshead that reinforces the American bias in the article. Please do not make any changes to the article without allowing other editors to reach consensus. Also, I would argue that using a "name" in your signature while editing from an IP address is an abuse of the username system. Nposs 19:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm on the IP address. I don't have a username. But why can't I have a name anyway. i shouldn't just be considered an IP address. (Angelina - talk)

Just register for an account. It is anonymous and it will keep you from being confused with other anonymous editors. Nposs 20:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
That's why I put my name on the IP address whenever I sign at the end of my message so it won't confuse with other editors on this IP address. I'm Angelina..and there's another editor Jessica...so we both share the same IP address. That's why we put names on it..

(Angelina - talk)

Well, clearly it isn't working. Nposs 20:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I suggest Angelina get a username to avoid further confusion. MrMacMan Talk 20:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)spec education


[edit] ==Possible source of ongoing disagreement

Hi, I have no desire to re-open a topic that has already been beaten to death, but I think that some of the dissention over this page may be due simply to differences in how terms are used in different locations. In the interest of promoting mutual understanding, allow me to explain what I mean.

In the US, "special education" was long a *place* where schools would warehouse students who couldn't be successful in regular classrooms. Often this was in a separate wing, or even a separate building, and a single special education class might include kids with vastly divergent issues, anywhere from learning disabilities to severe autism and MR. All too often these warehouses provided little effective instruction, if any.

In the last few years there has been a huge push to change the view of "special education" so that it is no longer considered a place to send students. Rather, research, "best practices", and education law have been pushing to change this so that special education isn't a location, but a *service* to be provided to students wherever they are. Sometimes this is a typical classroom, sometimes not.

If services are provided in the regular classroom (or on the playground or in the cafeteria ...), this might be called "inclusion" or "mainstreaming," or "collaboration." Collaborative usually means that a special education teacher is "pushed" into the regular classroom to support kids with disabilities. Unfortunately, all too often the terms inclusion and mainstreaming just mean that kids with disabilities are just dumped into regular classrooms with no support, taught by regular education teachers without the training to do the job.

Please do not misunderstand me and think that I am trying to revise the intent of this article. Rather, it is my hope that this explanation of terms might help to allay conflict.

One of the things I *like* about this article is that it is trying to avoid addressing special education from a programmatic perspective. That is to say, trying to describe specialized instruction in general, rather than talking about special education *programs* as implemented in schools in the US, UK etc. It can be difficult to bridge the differences, I know.

Best, Rosmoran 22:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticisms section

Hi, .

I don't understand the point being made in the 2nd bullet of the Criticisms section about at-risk students being placed with special education students. What kind of disabled students are we talking about? How does that cause the disabled students to lose educational opportunity?

I'm sure there are specific cases where this could happen, but is that really a notable criticism? Someone please enlighten me.

Thanks, Rosmoran 23:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It's still a criticism. I personally don't think that at-risk students (those with needs that aren't associated with a disability) should be placed with disabled students. It's not right and it doesn't provide appropriate education to the disabled. At-risk students have different types of needs and they should be served in a different setting. There's a reason why regular students aren't in special education. If regular students were in special education, then it wouldn't provide appropriate education to the disabled. The disabled needs a lot of attention unlike regular students. The regular students learn faster...they cannot wait for the disabled students to catch up..that wouldn't be fair if disabled students was put with regular students. that's the same with at-risk students. Therefore I changed "may impede" to "does not provide appropriate education". (MrsMacMan 15:16, 14 June 2007 (UTC))

Hi, MrsMacMan.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that if an at-risk student is placed in the same class as disabled students, the teacher will not be able to meet the educational needs of both groups appropriately.

Am I understanding you correctly?

Best, Rosmoran 17:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


Yes; it's like would you place gifted children that display behavior problems with disabled children? No, because both groups have different types of needs. I am trying to find a citation for it. Could you help me? It's hard which one is appropriate. (MrsMacMan 15:41, 15 June 2007 (UTC))


I'd be glad to try to help, but I'm not sure where to look. I doubt you're going to find a contemporary, reliable source stating that non-disabled and disabled students should not be educated together. On the contrary, you're much more likely to find sources supporting the contention that they should be educated together. This would be related to the current movement toward "inclusive education."
One thing you might consider is changing the slant of your statement just a bit. For example, rather than focusing on the combination of disabled and nondisabled students, try focusing on the difficulty of teaching students with different types of needs in the same classroom. By leaving out the labels (disabled and nondisabled) I think you'd have a lot more luck.
For example, there has been significant criticism of the inclusive model (in which disabled students are placed in the regular classroom with their typically developing peers). Criticism has been expressed that with special-needs children in the regular classroom, the additional needs of the disabled kids will take time away from the typical kids and slow down their education. From the other side, inclusion has been criticized because of concerns that disabled students often need a fundamentally different type of instruction than do typical students, which would be very difficult to provide in the regular classroom.
This is along the same principle as your original statement, but different enough that it will make a significant difference in how easy it will be to find sources.
I think I can probably find citations for those. Would you like me to look, or does that not sufficiently represent your point?
Best,
Rosmoran 16:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Mrs.MacMan,

You said "I personally don't think that at-risk students ..... should be placed with disabled students. It's not right and it doesn't provide an appropriate education to the disabled."

Perhaps you are not yet aware that statements of personal opinion do not belong on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and the Wiki article standards are very clear that information needs to be from a reliable source, for example, from a peer-reviewed publication. The principles also state that articles should be written from a Neutral Point of View (NPOV) and should include No Original Research (NOR). This means that all of the information in the section "Criticisms" needs verifiable sources cited, or the information should be removed.

Here are links to relevant Official Wikipedia Article Standards:


Best, Rosmoran 14:03, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questions regarding section "How is Special Education Provided?"

Hi,

What is "Autism Outreach?" I'm guessing this may be a UK-specific term as I haven't heard it in the US. Perhaps we could internationalize the terminology somehow.

Best, Rosmoran 13:27, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Reverted the removal of "gifted" in first sentence

Hi, Someone removed the word "gifted" from the first sentence saying that it is a different type of education. This is very POV. In the first phrase of the article, we have defined "special education" as education individualized for children with special needs. Gifted education *is* specialized instruction, or modifications made in the regular classroom. Furthermore, many school districts, universities, and state departments of education handle all types of "specialized instruction" under special education.

If the article is only about educating special needs children who have disabilities, then we need to revise the first sentence of the article to state that specifically. We could say "children with disabilities" instead of "children with special needs."

Otherwise, "giftedness" should remain in the first sentence. Best, Rosmoran 00:04, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I removed it because the reference supporting the opening paragraph made no mention of "gifted education." I'm fine with an inclusive definition if it can be supported. Is there a better reference though than the one you currently have? It isn't necessarily a reliable source. I won't revert the change in language, but most of the problems on this page have been related to the fuzzy definition of special education. It would be best to have a more authoritative source which mentions "gifted education" as part of "special education." Nposs 04:42, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Nposs, Can you give me an idea of what you consider a "better" reference? Typically I go for peer-reviewed journals, but this isn't a fact that needs to be established by research, and I don't know of any scholarly journals that would do the kind of survey that would show this "scientifically."

That it is a fact can be verified by looking at education departments around the country. The other reference in that same paragraph is related to the New Zealand education system. I could cite any number of state DOE pages indicating that GT programs are handled as part of special education. Would that help your comfort level?

Here are a few:

There are many states that handle gifted education through the IEP process (the "special education" process federally mandated by IDEA). The states simply piggy-back a state mandate for gifted education on the federal IDEA law.

Does this answer your question? Best, Rosmoran 06:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

There are also many states, though, where the credential to teach in a special ed enviroment is completely different from the one required to teach in a gifted ed environment. Most colleges that I'm aware of also separate out the programs into different degrees, implying that there are different skill sets needed to reach the two populations. I think it's also important to note that there is no statuatory obligation for states to use the IEP process with gifted kids, another huge difference from those kids with identified sped needs. RyanGrant 06:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Although I do not know this absolutely, I suspect you are correct WRT credentialing, at least in most states. You are, of course, correct that there is no federal statutory requirement for using the IEP process for gifted kids. The states can place the obligation on the SEA and LEAs, and some of them do.
I agree that these are important notes to include.
I think my primary objection to the first couple of sentences of the lead has to do with the use of the term "special needs." It is all too easy for our "politically correct" terms to become so vague that they do not assist with differentiating one thing from another. My assertion is that, if we're going to use the term "special needs," we need to use the term correctly and not as a euphemism for "disability." There is no question that children with "special gifts" have "special needs."
My personal preference would be to use "children with disabilities" in the lead. In addition, we could include notation that some states / LEAs include gifted education part of special education, and provide a link to a main article that discusses gifted education specifically.
Thoughts?
Best,
Rosmoran 09:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that's easily the best solution to making the opening better. This is an article on special education--we're not going to be able to stay away from all forms of the word disabled--and linking to the gifted ed article later on acknowledges the "big tent" idea of special education as being degrees of differentiated instruction. RyanGrant 18:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Dyslexia navigation template doesn't belong on Special education page

Hi, I'm removing the dyslexia navigation template from this page. Although a navigation page is probably a good idea, special education is way broader than language based learning disabilities, so this template is inappropriate.

Please, let's discuss major additions like this before we put them in place.

Best, Rosmoran 01:34, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

no problem. Statistically in the US a very high percentage of "special education students have dyslexia or a reading disability, so my personal perception is that they are closely connected... but I can see where others may have a different opinion. Armarshall 08:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Don't misunderstand me. Dyslexia definitely ought to appear on the navigation template for special education. The majority of kids in special education have a reading disability, and dyslexia is by far the most common reading disability.
The special education page would need to include references to other articles that wouldn't necessarily be appropriate on the dyslexia page. For example, it would need to include links to all of the types of issues that are served by special education --- developmental disabilities, the so-called "emotionally disturbed" related disabilities, major sensory deficits such as deafness and blindness, mobility issues, etc etc. It would also need to link to different higher-level articles, such as education, learning, pedagogy, educational psychology, and so on.
Does that make sense?

Rosmoran 17:53, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Included redirect to Gifted education

Hi,

Someone removed the redirect to Gifted education, stating that the article is not only about children with disabilities, and that behavioral problems are not necessarily caused by disabilities.

I revised the content of the redirect so that includes the "behavioral problems" clarification, and put the redirect template back into the article.

The redirect needs to be there because the lead section specifically mentions Gifted education as being a type of "Special education". This leads readers to think that the topic of educating gifted students will be covered in the current article. Therefore, we need to provide the redirect so that this expectation is not created.

If there were a section in this article that discusses gifted education, we could place the redirect there rather than at the top of the article.

If someone wants to create a Gifted education section and move the redirect to that location, please do so. In this case, we would use the Main Article template, placed immediately beneath the section heading. This template is coded as follows: {{ main|location }} and produces the following text:

Main article: Gifted education

There may be other ways of solving this problem, but if you want to remove this redirect and do not want to create a gifted education section, please bring the issue up here first so that we can come to consensus on an alternative.

Best,

Rosmoran 15:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concerns of parents of typically developing children

Someone mentioned the need to acknowledge that parents of typically developing children may have concerns about inclusion. This is a good point --- it should definitely be included. I revised the addition slightly to separate the concerns of some parents of kids with disabilities (that their children may not receive the instructional approaches their children need to learn effectively, for example, kids with dyslexia cannot get the kind of instruction they need in a regular classroom) from the concerns of some parents of typically developing children (that the "inclusion" students may take up an inordinate proportion of the teacher's time and attention).

Best,

Rosmoran 11:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] comment about my change

Students with disabilities or behavioral problems are also known as special needs. --167.206.128.33 17:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The statement in question used to say something very similar to your revision. It was reworded because of earlier conversations on the Talk page in which some editors asserted asserted that "gifted" programs are often implemented as part of Special Education. Notice that "gifted education" is listed in the 1st sentence of the article.
Because a group of editors hashed through this a couple of months ago, I'm going to revert the "other uses" to its previous wording.
Best,
Rosmoran 19:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand. If someone has a disability or displays behavioral problems, it means they have special needs. Someone who is gifted and displays behavioral problems will still be considered special needs. If someone is failing school but is tested and is considered gifted, why should that person be placed in a gifted class? A gifted class is for people whose behavior is respectful and appropriate. Why should a gifted class accept someone whose behavior is disrespectful and inappropriate? --167.206.128.33 22:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


I am not addressing the question of why giftedness should or should not be handled as part of special education as Wikipedia is not intended to be a forum for discussion of the article's subject. If you look at the top of many Talk pages, you'll see that there is often a notice that states: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the xxxxxxx article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject."
Regardless of personal opinion, the fact is that many educational institutions treat giftedness as a special need. This fact is reflected in the article.
Best,
Rosmoran 11:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
That is what I'm saying. Giftedness is a special need depending on the case. I just don't understand why we can't use it as special needs instead of saying disabilities or behavioral problems. --167.206.128.33 13:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Please provide a proper citation for your viewpoint. You seem to be making an argument based on your own interpretation of what those words mean. Nposs 14:06, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree 167.206.128.33 is yet another abusive sockpuppet of banned User:Jessica Liao. IP now blocked. Feel free to revert her edits on sight. --Fire Star 火星 14:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] criticism section

tidied up recent addition to criticism section to make it more npov, and to remove unsupported statements. This is the same as the piece that was put into the learning disability article. --Vannin 04:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sections describing what special education is

Uhmmm .... what happened to the sections that described what special education is, the forms it can take, etc? The article seems to have a huge hole in it without this information. There's the initial definition, abbreviations for the term, and then a bulleted list of criticisms.

Is the problem that special education is handled differently in different countries, so some editors decided to remove the information in order to eliminate conflict about how it should be described?

This article has a very weird structure now, which should be addressed.

Rosmoran (talk) 07:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal?

An editor at Mainstreaming in education first proposed merging Mainstreaming into Inclusion (education). The current proposal is to merge it into Special education. If you have opinions about this please feel free to join the discussion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC)