Talk:Soweto uprising

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A few things. One, this article is a bit short, please expand if you can. Two, photos direly needed. Three, external links and footnotes. If you can add those, thanks alot in advance! Banes 15:06, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Accuracy 2 Improvement drive 3 This is a racist article 4 Tsietsi 5 Article name 6 Grootbaas 7 Adding references 8 Still biased 9 Afrikaans widely used? 10 the article is not neutral

[edit] Accuracy

There are also some problems with the accuracy of statements and events.

[edit] Improvement drive

Black Consciousness Movement has been nominated to be improved on WP:IDRIVE. If you want to see it improved, vote for it here! --Fenice 11:42, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This is a racist article

I think this page is quite impartial and I would say even racist as it condemns the high school kids more than the police who killed innocent children who were just protesting for their rights! It's another racist and fascist white man view of a massacre of black children. I think this phrase should be eliminated: "Many senior pupils were also worried about the forthcoming Afrikaans language exams they had to take", as it looks like it is suggesting that the riots were started because black kids were lazy and didn't want to learn! This is crazy! This paragraph should be cancelled too: "The violence escalated as the students panicked and many began to throw various projectiles at police. The police opened fire as the students went on the rampage destroying anything related to the government. Administrative buildings were burned, shops looted, and some government officials were murdered by the enraged mob of students. Clashes and protests continued throughout the day, particularly in the area around the Regina Mhundi Church in Orlando and the Esso garage in Chiawelo. Schools closed early and Soweto burned as more children joined the riots. Bottle stores and beerhalls were targeted as it was felt that alcohol was used by the government to control black people," as it concentrates on the violence by the blacks while it leaves out the massacre made by the white police. I really think that this article should concentrate more on how white police officers killed black innocent kids! By the way I'm white so you can't accuse me of racism!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theblues (talk • contribs) 01:47, 6 January 2006

I have cancelled the parts of the article which were not neutral and racist. 195.210.65.41 00:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I have canceled the parts of the article which were extremely not neutral and racist.Theblues 00:44, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The reason that the police opened fire was because of provocation by the actions of the students, and while it was terrible what transpired, a lot of what is perceived of the '76 disturbances is due to the exaggeration and alteration by the ANC

[edit] Tsietsi

The role of Tsietsi Mashinini needs to be added. I'd do it, but I'm not the most knowledgable. 782 Naumova 10:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article name

A couple of years ago, if I recall correctly, I heard a (black) radio talkshow host correcting a listener who referred to the subject of this article as riots. In South Africa, I think the term used is Soweto Uprising. I have no personal preference, but this needs to be borne in mind, if ever an objection is raised to the title. Park3r 10:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Ya, in fact I have never heard it refered to as a riot. How about a name change? --nocturnal omnivorous canine 00:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Now renamed. --Ezeu 01:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I also challenge the partiality of this account. I would even go so far as to change the title of the article to the "Soweto Massacre." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.31.105.62 (talk) 23:38, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

No, I vote for sticking to names that are well-known. The term "Soweto Massacre" occurs less than 1/15th as many times as "Soweto Riots" and less than 1/42nd as many times as "Soweto Uprising" on the web. -- leuce (talk) 16:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grootbaas

I suspect Punt Janson's Afrikaans words were "grootbaas" (here translated as "the big boss"). This would be a mistranslation, for "grootbaas" was simply a way used by non-adult black people to refer to or address an adult male. The term "groot" in this sense means "adult", not "big". The term "grootbaas" was not translated when used in English, so I suggest the quote is changed to include either "grootbaas" or just "baas". -- leuce (talk) 15:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding references

I've added references to most of the historic stuff, but the sections Political Context, Aftermath and Legacy still needs references. I've seen the BBC/SABC documentary twice, but I can't find any references to it on the web; please help. -- leuce (talk) 16:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Still biased

Despite amendments post the comments above, I still find this article biased and euphemistic. There are many statements in this article which still paint the children as the aggressors who used excessive violence and also depicts the police as reacting to the situation, as opposed to igniting it, which certainly contradicts the version of events we are taught here in our South African schools.

For example "The rioting continued and 23 people, including two whites, died on the first day in Soweto. Among them was Dr Melville Edelstein who had devoted his life to social welfare among blacks.[9] He was stoned to death by the mob and left with a sign around his neck proclaiming 'Beware Afrikaaners'." Why is this particular event singled out? It makes the children appear as an unruly, ungrateful mob who turned on the people who helped them, which is certainly not a fair depiction.

While I wasn't there and I don't know the full story, I'm quite sure this article is not an accurate or fair reflection. Considering the number of people who treat wikipedia as a definitive source of information, its disconcerting that this historic event in our history is being portrayed to the world thus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.245.183.52 (talk) 07:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The mention of what happened to Dr Edelstein does not signal to me that the children were unruly. It simply shows how ironic it is that a person who wanted to help, got killed. Clearly he was killed by people who didn't know him.

As for the fact that it is taught in South African schools that the police had incited the violence, well, the fact that the police had reacted to incitement by the children are well-documented. So what if an idealised version of the story is taught in South African schools. The Wikipedia article shouldn't ignore the overwhelming evidence to the contrary simply because it is an unpopular truth.

History taught in schools reflect what the current government wants its next generation to believe. leuce (talk) 07:37, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Afrikaans widely used?

I removed this quote, contributed by an IP: Most blacks came from Afrikaans farms, and on the mines Afrikaans was spoken widely (diff at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Soweto_uprising&action=edit&undoafter=197821859&undo=197822510). The numbers don't make sense; there simply weren't enough "Afrikaans farms" for 50% +1 of blacks to hail from them, and on the mines Afrikaans was a (small?) part of the mash-up languages used. But if anyone thinks (or, better yet, can provide references) the contrary, I'd like to hear about it please. 9Nak (talk) 11:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the article is not neutral

I still think this article is biased. "The rioting continued and 23 people, including two white people, died on the first day in Soweto. Among them was Dr Melville Edelstein who had devoted his life to social welfare among blacks.[9] He was stoned to death by the mob and left with a sign around his neck proclaiming 'Beware Afrikaaners'." This tends to show the children as brutal animals without even no gratitude to their white friend. Parts of the article are chosen to depict the children in a certain, surely not positive, way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theblues (talk • contribs) 10:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)