Talk:Snowmobile

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[edit] Performance Section/Cleanup

I’ve added a new performance section as modifications to enhance performance are common.

I removed this from the subculture section: “In recent years, Andrew Horn of Anchorage, AK has been lighting up the area with his own version of freestyle snowmachining.”

I live in the area and nobody knows who this guy is and I can’t find anything in Google on him.

Some general article cleanup is in order!

[edit] Unbiased?

Anyone getting a feel that this is a BIASED article? with the enviormental impact about the same size of the ENTIRE ARTICLE, somthing is wrong. Remember, this is a enyclopedia.

The entire article is over 1100 words. The environmental impact section has 268 words. Aside from that, it appears in appropriate in context. Most of the political and legal debate over snowmobiles is based on their environmental impact. -Will Beback 22:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I concur, it doesn't seem disproportionate. -Cyberprog 22:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Engines

In the world of snowmobiles where almost every machine is a two-stroke, it may seem that the four-strokes are going to make them quieter, but this may not be the case. With off-road motorcycles, the "thumpers" (four-strokes) have a reputation for being extremely loud. In a factory condition the four-strokes are generally quieter but if you put a high performance exhaust on both a two and a four stroke, the four will be much louder. Painfully in fact. Many "thumpers" are using aftermarket exhaust to take full advantage of the motor's potential power. It will be interesting to see how this plays out with snowmobiles and jet skis.

Two-Stroke Technologies like Direct-Inject Need to be addressed

The "thumpers" are single cylinder engine's. The four stroke's in snowmobiles are 2 to 4 cylinders.

[edit] Thiokol

If anyone knows anything about Thiokol's business in the snowmobile field (it was, I've read, a huge player for a time in the '70s) then I'd appreciate an addition to that article. Thanks. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 19:02, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thiokol never made snowmobiles. They made snowcats (or snow cats), which are now usually called "groomers" because most of them are now used to groom the snow on ski slopes or trails or snowmobile trails. Snowmobiles are small one or two person machines with no cockpit, no cabin, and a single track in the back and two skis in the front. Snowcats (or groomers) are big machines with enclosed cabs, driven by two or even four tracks. Do a Web image search with the terms "Thiokol Imp" and another one with "Thiokol Spryte" to see what these tracked vehicles are like. Bombardier also made several models of groomers and multi purpose snowcats (which are now produced by Camoplast, industrial division), along with several other US companies like Tucker, and Swedish companies like Hagglunds. There is plenty of info on them all on the Web once you know under what words to search. Some of these machines are also called logging skidders or just "skidders". We don't have any article yet on snow groomers or multi purpose snowcats yet. Feel like starting one? --AlainV 01:33, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Frankly, I didn't know the difference between a snowmobile and a snowcat until right now (so I wouldn't be much good about writing said article). The reason I ask is that I just finished writing the Thiokol article, and it's rather unsatisfactory. They started as a chemical company, and later a maker of solid rockets using the chemical. I can't figure out how (or when) they got into the snow equipment business (and equally the skilift business), and I'd love to have the minutes of the boardmeeting when someone said "We've won the contract to build the space shuttle boosters; let's sell the skilift division".  :) -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 01:42, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kegresse tracks?

Try as I might, I can't find any evidence that snowmobile tracks are called "Kegresse tracks" in english. I understand, from Ericd's edit to Caterpillar track, the purported difference between the two types - but I can't find anyone calling snowmobile tracks Kegresse. Consequently I move that the english phrase "Kegresse tracks" pertains only to those half-tracks made by Adolphe Kegresse and, regardless of usage in other languages, "caterpillar track" is the expression in currency for both types of track. If someone can cite english langage sources that do use Kegresse in the more general sense, I'm more than willing to read 'em. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 01:48, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea, that's why I unpiped the link. -Willmcw 01:56, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

I read a lot over the years on Joseph-Armand Bombardier's patents for snowmobile components and the track system in particular and remember no reference to Kegresse. I checked again on the Bombardier museum site (available in French as well as in English http://www.fjab.qc.ca/entrance.htm) and there was no mention of Kegresse. --AlainV 04:37, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Let's pull it then. Is caterpillar track correct? That's what was there before. Maybe we should just say they run on a "rubber track" and leave it at that. -Willmcw 04:43, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
Here's this citation that I found which buttreses the use of the term. http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/vehicles/trrv/vehhalf.htm
American half tracks used a development of the French designed Kegresse tracks which were like large rubber bands. The vehicles also had driven front axles. Most of these produced, initially by the White Company and later by others, were armoured. During World War 2 many were supplied to Britain.
That reference obviously dates the invention to some time before 1940, and the photo shows something that is similar in concept to a snowmowbile track. In light of this, I suggest we leave it. The red link may encourage someone to write an article on the mysterious Kegresse tracks. (Perhaps the French Wikipedia already has one). However, I'll move the link down. Cheers, -Willmcw 06:42, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Yamaha snowmobile lineup

Just wanted to inform the person that keeps editing the text under "Enviromental Impact" that NOT all of Yamaha's sleds are 4-strokes. Yamaha is still producing the SXVenom, SXVenom ER, SXViper Mountain, and the Venture 600. Yamaha hasn't updated these models the last few years, but they're still part of the official lineup for 2006.

Check it out for yourself.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/lifestylehome/home.aspx

Also, under the history section, it states "The snowmobile market is now divided up between the four large North American makers (Ski Doo, Arctic Cat, Yamaha, and Polaris)" - Is Yamaha classed as a North American maker? I'm struggling to find any reference to Yamaha being majority-owned by any North American corporation(s).--Kurisutofaa Pouru 13:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The parent company may be japaneese but the Yamaha snowmobiles are made by the subsidiary Yamaha Motor Corporation based in Cypress, California ([History]). I don't know how you would qualify the ownership but the manufacturing is North-American. Pierre cb 14:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Snowtrucks

Should the military snowtrucks also be mentioned under other vehicles? I'm not sure if there's an article about them only already, so that's why I'm asking. See these pictures if you dont know what I mean (they're from the Finnish Defence Forces, so the pics may be used for free as long as the source is mentioned):

[edit] NPOV?

From the subculture section: "They are very passionate about their sport and are very offended when ingnorant people refer to snowmobiling as nothing more than " just sitting there pushing a throttle." The kind of riding these enthusiests do requires an immense amount of strength and effort (it is a huge amount of work throwing around a 500 pound machine, as most can imagine)."

I smell a bit of vendetta, there, with the classification of people under a certain school of thought (regardless of how misconceived) as being "ingnorant [sic]." However, I'm not quite sure of how to clean it up and make it neutral without disposing of a big chunk of the section, since it seems to be such a response to an unspoken argument. So, if some other kind soul out there with a little more finesse than me could take care of it, that'd rock. --Matt S. 04:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It's been over a month, so I decided to just go ahead and take care of it myself. I hope the changes are acceptable. --Matt S. 23:25, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timing of Grass Drags....

Wikipedia has..."Grass drags are held every spring, with the largest event being Hay Days in Lino Lakes, Minnesota. Hay Days has always been the first weekend following the Labor Day Holiday. The World Championship Watercross or Snowmobile skipping races are held in Grantsburg, Wisconsin in July." It used to say "summer" but was edited by a "vandal" to spring but then I checked up before I planned to revert and the article also says that Hay Days is the first weekend after Labour Day and Wikipedia has Labor day as first Monday in September. To me thats late summer - practically autumn (fall) and not really summer (and certainly not spring). Checked a few web sites and it seems to be Fall (otherwise known as Autumn to the rest of the known universe/world) Ttiotsw 23:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SDI and DI technologies

What are the SDI and DI technologies mentioned in the line: "...the park awarded them for their advanced research into SDI and DI technologies."? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.23.245.27 (talk) 22:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC).


SDI and DI refer to Semi-Direct Injection and Direct Injection, respectively. These are more effiecient fuel delivery systems that replace carbs.

[edit] Sentence in History Section needs rewording

Under History, the 3rd para has the following sentence:

"He was lead in 1954 by Brothers Edgar and Allen Hetteen and a friend, David Johnson of Roseau, Minnesota."

Could someone reword that to be more intelligible?

Tony 20:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Section cleaned up somewhat, but claims of hundreds of companies making snowmobiles has not been validated.Silverchemist 15:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know whether this really belongs in history or individual snowmachines, but the current page reads like an advertizement for Bombardier....Maybe someone with better editing skills than me could add some history and pictures from Carl Eliason's site....seems to me he is the father of the modern snowmobile as we know it today. You can check out his motor toboggin at www.eliason-snowmobiles.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.134.97 (talk) 15:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reasoning for Deleting Certain Links

1st Link - Yellow Stone National Park
Reasoning: This link should go on the Wikipedia article Yellow Stone National Park NOT the article on Snowmobiling

2nd Link Bombardier
Reasoning: This link should go under the Wikipedia article Bombardier.

Please make sure that your link is appropriate before adding it to an article.

Eric 00:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is This Even True?

"And try not to fall off cause if your do consider yourself hurt. And dont over run your snowmobile its engine will blow up."

Even if this sentence is true the wording and spelling is horrible, someone find some references or something to these incidents and please reword this into modern-day English. Thank you.

Stegosaurus 21:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It's true. If you fall from it, you turn in the air in such speed your giong to break somthing. If you broke a hand or leg, your lucky. It's also true about the run-over. Just like a car by the way.

[edit] Help needed

Hello. I'm a fan of the sport, even though i live in Israel (we have a problem. No snow). At vications i go to mountaines in the USA (Wyoming), or even more fun Siberia at winter (diffrent types of roads, tracks, mountained areas). I have also been at the Alphs and you really have fun there!!!

Anyway, i started reading a lot of bocks, and i found that the first snowmobile was the Aerosan by Sikorsky. and it was ignored in the article.

I entered this information, dont worry, what i ask is somthing else: Where can i try this device? Are there people in the English speaking world who could give advices?

I know it's pretty much an off-topic, but i think it's the best place to ask.

P.S. Is their translation to the word Aerosan? Aero i understend, but the finishing i dont. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.178.1.184 (talk) 18:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Aerosan appears to be from the Russian for "aero-sled". "Sled" means something used to travel across snow or ice (I apologize if you know this, but I want to make this easy because English is not your first language). I think Aerosans are mostly used in Russia. Meanwhile, if you seek snowmobiling trips, try the US state of New Hampshire between November and February. It's inexpensive to travel in New Hampshire (no sales tax) and there are special, long trails for snowmobiles in many places. It is also several thousand miles closer to Israel than Wyoming, being on the east coast, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.64.219.3 (talk) 20:30, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Edit by the same person: I am an American, and I visited Israel several years ago. You, too, have a beautiful country to enjoy.69.64.219.3 (talk) 20:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aerosan

I would like that the anonymous user insisting in calling the Aerosan a snowmobile would produce a reference. To me this machine is not a snowmobile as it does not use a track as propulsion. The same way one cannot call an Hovercraft a boat.

Pierre cb (talk) 15:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Son, i'm 57 years old. I worked for Lynx a few years (there a Finish company), and before that in Bombardier. I know whar i'm talking about.
What you said is the same thing as KIA's cars are KIA's and are not cars.
The Aerosan is a snowmobile, and Sikorsky, who lived in the USA many years, to called it that way. So why is it named Aerosan? Because Aero- it uses a preopeller. San- are the slides.
Anyway, their aint much difference beetwen that thing and todays Snowmobile.
Ray H. Muscott of Waters to haven't called his device Snowmobile. In Russian any snowmobile is named Aerosan.
P.S. Officaly Aerosan is regestered as a Snowmobile, and it's refered to as a type of Snowmobile.
Web sites who do that, for example:
[1] (quote: "Not only are snowmobiles popular in the United States and Canada, Ussr has their very own version of the snowmobile, which can be seen in the aerosan. Aerosan, when interpreted, intends "aero sleigh." The Russians usage this propeller-powered snowmobile for delivering the mail, patrolling the metes, as well as for recreational intents.")
[2] (quote: "An aerosan (Russian: aerosani, literally `aerosled`) is a type of propeller-powered snowmobile, running on skis, used for communications, mail deliveries, medical aid, emergency recovery and border patrolling in northern Russia, as well as for recreation. Aerosans were used by the Soviet Red Army during the Winter War and the Second World War.")
[3] (here they tell you to go to Snowmobile when you search for Aerosan)
As you can see, Aerosan is a type of a Snowmobile.
Good research that you must put properly as reference IN the text. By the way, I'm not your son and furthermore I'm almost as old as you. Finally, half-tracks developped in Russia at the same time are used on snow too and are not considered as snowmobile. Pierre cb (talk) 16:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
First, sorry for calling you son. It wasnt ment to insult you. The thing is that almost all the Wikipedians here are in their 20s and i didnt know you werent. I didn't mean anything bad.
Second, i dont know how to reference in the text.
Third, your 100% right that a Half-Track is not a snowmobile, but therefore it aint registered as one and i havent seen one place where it's called a Snowmobile. It uses wheels for example. It's a car system combining other elements. The Aerosan and the snowmobile are generally speaking based on the same system, and not surprising since, as already said, Aerosan is a type of Snowmobile.
And again, sorry for calling you son it wasn't of any bad intention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.160.114 (talk) 17:46, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I've integrated the references in the text and made it neutral on the subject. Pierre cb (talk) 18:19, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! Exellent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.160.114 (talk) 18:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)