Talk:Snaefell Mountain Course

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[edit] Map of the TT course

I'm hoping to soon build up a map of the TT course from all the free mapping data over at OpenStreetMap as the Isle of Man has pretty good coverage already. The main roads along the course should all be in there now I believe, so it will just require extracting from the database and styling a little. I'm thinking to keep it as simple and reusable as possible we'd just use the main roads involved and exclude everything else, but if anyone has different ideas, let me know. --dankarran 15:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Sound like a good idea to keep it simple. Would you intend to add all the named locations to the map ar at least a key? Something like this or this.ww2censor 16:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

We probably should include that extra information. I'm reluctant to add it back into OpenStreetMap as the only way I could readily get that information would be to extract it from one of those maps, which could cause copyright issues... I have sent an email to the Department of Tourism to see if they would be able to help out. Where did the existing location information come from for the pages already created? --dankarran 17:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I doubt that would be a problem as all the locations information is common knowledge and can be acquired, or put together, from many sources. I think if I wanted to acquire all the location information I could look at maps, travel the course and consult IOM governmental documents to put all that together quite easily. ww2censor 22:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I would welcome a map for the Snaefell Mountain Course. First a general profile of the course at the top of the page without copyright problems. Finding genuine sources for location information for course information is more difficult than it would appear. Local places names in particular can be difficult and previous information was copied directly from The Magic of The TT. A Century of Racing over The Mountain by Mac McDiarmid complete with incorrect information incorrect spelling of Isle of Man placenames. I have added reference sources when I can find them to local information. I have now information for the Quaterbridge and Glen Helen. In the past I have used GB Ordnance Survey map references which can be useful for lat and longitude and height above sea-level. {Agljones 12:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)}

I didn't hear anything back from the Department of Tourism, but I will be happy to make a larger map that you can add information to if you can find suitable sources. It will be a little while before I can do it (need to clean the data up a little bit still, and sort out a good method for doing it) but in the meantime I've added an overview map of the course which I've just hand-drawn over the OpenStreetMap data. --dankarran 20:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

For the time being it looks good. ww2censor 01:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Which direction on the mountain circuit are races run, clockwise or anti-clockwise – or both? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricadus (talk • contribs) 18:28, June 8, 2007)

The TT races are run clockwise. ww2censor 23:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article name

The most common name for the course, by a long margin, is 'TT Course'. This is the name used in almost all media articles, and on maps.

In accordance with Wikipedia policy WP:TITLE, the most common name used be used for the actual title of the article, with more technically exact names used at the start.

Also, in any event, Snaefell Mountain Course is a name in its entirety, and should be capitalized.

Mauls (talk) 22:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

The Isle of Man Centenary TT - ACU/MMCC Official Race Guide on page 67 refers to a map of the circuit and it decribed as the "Mountain Course" and the same publication refers to practice on the "Mountain Course." Also, the Race Guide for the 1972 Isle of Man TT Races descibes the results for the Isle of Man TT Races 1907-1910 as the "Short Course" and the TT races 1911 ownwards as the "Mountain Course." The current term is "Mountain Course" and refers to the Isle of Man TT Races and also the Manx Grand Prix which shares the same circuit. To describe the term "Snaefell Mountain Course" or "Mountain Course" as an obsolete term or 'niche term' would be incorrect and perhaps you should provided documentary evidence to your assertions inline with Wikiedia policy and aslo be careful of incorrect descriptions about the Isle of Man TT Races in either media, maps or other doucmentary evidence.

It is perhaps helpful for the reader of the article(s) to understand the difference between the Isle of Man TT Races as an event and also the "TT Course," as you refer to it, as a race circuit which is also used by the Manx Grand Prix as a seperate event. As the Wikipedia article Snaefell Mountain Course is a technical description of the course and the other documented course names such as Guthrie's Memorial, 11th Milestone and Handley's Corner etc, can be seen to be aslo technical description in accordance with Wikipedia policy WP:TITLE, the most common name used be used for the actual title of the article, with more technically exact names used at the start. In this case then the article Snaefell Mountain Course the intial description should be "Snaefell Mountain Course" instead of "(Snaefell) Mountain Course."

Despite the assertion, "the most common name for the course, by a long margin, is 'TT Course'...." it now appears that there is a policy to change all references to "Mountain Course" to "Snaefell Mountain Course" a term previously described as incorrect or a little used 'niche term.' Large-scale reversion of unrelated changes is vandalism, and you should desist from such actions. It is also unhelpful to make changes of this type as it is makes it difficult to edit articles about the Isle of Man TT Races or start new articles about the ".... other incarnations at earlier times..." If there is a random policy to change description to "Snaefell Mountain Course," again, perhaps you should provided documentary evidence to your assertions inline with Wikiedia policy and aslo be careful of incorrect descriptions of the the Isle of Man TT Races or Manx Grand Prix in either media, maps or other doucmentary evidence. (Agljones (talk) 13:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC))

Perhaps a look at the media who know about the IOM TT would be a good place to start: IOM TT website and Manx GP website who use the term Snaefell Mountain Course will help you see that this is the appropriate title; especially this page. TT Course can refer to any of the courses used to run TT races on, so is quite wrong because it is confusing even though it is used as a redirect that name should be a disambiguation page. Some use the name TT Mountain Course, even the IOM TT website. The Isle of Man government refer to it as the "Mountain Course" here and "TT Mountain Course" here amongst other instances of both but not as "TT Course". ww2censor (talk) 15:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)