Talk:Siren

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Contents 1 Comments 2 I agree - It's much easier to look up 3 Related Links 4 Odysseus not Ulysses 5 It is said.... 6 Popular culture section 7 Problematic passage from intro 8 Parthenope

[edit] Comments

This article as written now is unorganized and confusing, and really appears as a collection of unorganized details. What ought to be done is A) present the salient (main & important) features of the story of the sirens, and then B) present the minor variations on it. As it is now, it is like spaghetti thrown up against the wall.

Please shift "sirens in popular culture" to a seperate article .

WoodElf 11:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Makes sense, was looking unwieldy. Should clean up the new article, though Dick G 09:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I though HARPIES were the half-woman half bird while Sirens were akin to Mermaids. When did the mermaid connection happen?--BruceGrubb (talk) 15:01, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I agree - It's much easier to look up

That makes sense to me, then you don't have to click on a link that takes you to a separate page, Please do this ASAP - Danmeister

i think the sirens were very interesting characters in greek mythology. i was always a fan of the creatures and theire special "powers" such as medusa & etc.

[edit] Related Links

Should this be linked to the Femme Fatale entry? They are both male myths about dangerous females that are not easily dominated.

[edit] Odysseus not Ulysses

I'm not sure how to change this, but it should be changed: Although titled correctly in this article, the linked photograph of the painting is titled 'Ulysses and the sirens' instead of the correct 'Odysseus and the sirens'. Someone might want to change that.

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In Homeric poems such as 'The Odyssey' and 'The Iliad' Odysseus is called Odysseus. However, Virgil calls Odysseus 'Ulysses'.

I am pretty sure Ulysses is the latin name, and Odysseus is the translation.

Musica101 18:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It is said....

The following paragraph seems to have a logic error in it:

"It is said that, incensed at having been outplayed, the Sirens flung themselves down into the water and perished. Varying traditions associate this event with their encounters with Jason or Odysseus, though the incident appears in neither Homer's Odyssey nor Apollonius Rhodius's Argonautica."

Since no other music was played in the Odyssey, the Sirens must have thrown themselves into the sea for some other reason, such as having failed in their goal. StuRat 06:28, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Popular culture section

Recently there has been a concerted effort in a number of AfDs to delete a raft of popular culture articles. The separate Sirens in popular culture article was spun off from the main article 18 months ago and subsequently took on a life of its own as a magnet to any number of trivial references. As a result of an AfD nomination, the article has since been cleaned up and drastically shortened. In addition, a number of editors now watch this page, the popular culture page and the Siren dab to keep them free from fancruft, listcruft and general trivia mess. On that basis it would seem more sensible to restore the short paragraphs to this, the main article. Please leave any comments on this proposal either here or at Talk:Sirens in popular culture. The discussion will be left open for a month or so before making any decision. Thanks Dick G 00:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

No objections to proposal. Merge completed.Dick G 02:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problematic passage from intro

This from the intro needs rewriting to make it clear which writers are being talked about, and to remove the implication that certain writers tell the "real" story:

"Later writers have stated that the Sirens were anthropophagous, but this is not supported by classical writings, nor is there any evidence that the Sirens drowned themselves failing to seduce one of the many heroes that passed their way, though that has also become a fixture in retellings of the story."

Dybryd 02:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Its rather misleading indeed. People are confusing sources with authority. Like the statement that "there is no evidence the Sirens drowned themselves" except "in retellings of the story." Well, it is true that the story is only now to be found in late Greek and Roman texts, but if you look at Greek art you can find the "Siren-suicide" scene in works created centuries before any of those writers. In other words, those "retellings" and the art are both sourced from some very old lost Greek work. Because 95% of Greek literature is lost to us, its almost always impossible to distinguish been "authentic" myth and later embellishment. --Theranos 15:18, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parthenope

I am quite sure that The Penguin Guide to Classical Mythology says it's the same Parthenope who was a Siren, but if it's a different Parthenope, that would make sense, since the Sirens do not appear to be mortals. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 15:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)