Talk:Sigma Alpha Epsilon

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Fraternities and Sororities WikiProject Sigma Alpha Epsilon is part of the Fraternities and Sororities WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Greek Life on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to International social societies, local organizations, honor societies, and their members. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, visit the project page, where you can join the project, and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents

[edit] Adding the flag

This is a link to the flag: http://www.fahnenversand.de/fotw/images/u/us_sae.gif I have no idea on how to post it here, so I ask one of you to please add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.142.220 (talk) 11:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please Split

There needs to be a new section for famous Alumni.

[edit] R. Dismer Bassett

I have requested this article for comment. R. Dismer Bassett is a name that is being consistently added to the famous alumni section by suspected sock puppets. R. Dismer Bassett is a non-notable and does not meet the criteria of Wikipedia's notability requirments. --† Ðy§ep§ion † 00:35, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removed POV sections

I removed the "To the SAE undergrad..." and "True Gentleman" sections, I feel they violate WP:NPOV and WP:NOT. Dspserpico 03:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why I am restoring NPOV & Advertisement Tag

I am restoring the NPOV tag and Advertisement Tag because it is necessary. Since it was removed since I last put it up, I will now justify why I put it up in the hopes that anybody who removes it will justify its removal.

The language on the History section seems to be boilerplate language produced by the Fraternity. While this might be a good guide to the frat's history, it is also deceptive to pretend it is neutral language that doesn't read like an advertisement. It's like reading a Wikipedia page about Wal-mart prepared by Wal-Mart, or reading a Wikipedia page about a Congressman that was prepared by his/her staffers.

Now, the "True Gentleman" section. That perhaps would belong in a section of quotes about the Fraternity or by its founders or whoever the fellow is that said the quote. Its placement in the middle of the article only goes to show that this article was not prepared with the idea of making the entry befit an encyclopedia. It also bolsters the argument that the entry reads like an advertisement.

Until this article is changed to a more neutral presentation, or until somebody convinces me (through this talk page) that the existing page is neutral and not an advertisement, I will continue to restore this tag whenever it is deleted. takethemud 04:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)takethemud

Atleast now, you've explained why you put the tag in the first place. It is very difficult for other people when other editors place any sort of tag on an article without so much as an explanation (i.e. what specific part of the article that warranted the tag in the first place). Having said that I do agree the history section is not written in a formal tone. --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 05:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The True Gentleman" Section changes

I added a history segment to the section about "The True Gentleman." I kept it as neutral as possible. I think the problems with writing about SAE and maintaining neutrality is that the only history publications of the fraternity have been produced by the organization and therefore may sound biased. I understand your concern for the integrity of this website, so I am trying to help the situation. Being a brother of SAE myself, I would really like to see this page meet the quality standards of Wikipedia. Thanks.

[edit] Problem Chapters

what happened to this section?

Answer: I felt that this section shined a negative light on the organization and therefore upset the neutrality of the article. Since there is a discussion on positive bias in the article, the same should go for negative bias as well.

That doesn't make any sense. "The same should go for negative bias as well"? If that's the case, then the negative bias should be in the article. Wikipedia is suppose to be neither for or against. Take a look at Pi Kappa Phi. The problem chapters should be reinstated considering that they were cited.

Relax. I'm about to fix the history to remove the bias from it. You say that "Wikipedia is supposed to be neither for or against." With the problems chapters section and the history as it is, it makes the article for AND against. Once the history has been fixed, then the article should be fine.

[edit] California Epsilon

The article California Epsilon should be merged here. Individual chapters should never have their own website. Wikipedia is not a webspace provider. The same thing happened with chapters of Beta Theta Pi. All chapter articles which were created subsequently got deleted were merged to the main Beta Theta Pi page. --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 18:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I have proposed this article for deletion in according with the above said and WP:NOT.Samwisep86 22:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carson Palmer

Where did the information Carson Palmer is a member of SAE come from? I've looked in the fraternity's national membership directory and he doesn't come up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JJohnke (talk • contribs) 20:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Haven't been able to find it either. Jmlk17 23:03, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I can't find it either, except for in a Wiki BLP on him, which states that he was in a "Sigma Alpha" fraternity. Should the reference to him here be removed? Newguy34 (talk) 23:39, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Phi Alpha

Removed reference to the motto, which was necessary due to the fact that the meaning of said motto is a fraternity secret. Please try to not reveal any more fraternity secrets in future postings.

fraternity mottos are not generally secret, however, the underlying meanings may be the_undertow talk 08:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Good work. The literal meaning is quite different than the secret meaning, but it should still not be published in either regard. Jmlk17 23:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References to Phi Gamma Delta

I keep seeing one member post a reference to some of ΣAE's founders being associated with Phi Gamma Delta prior to forming ΣAE. I didn't remember seeing or hearing anything about that during the pledge education process, but thought it might have been possible I missed something.

After researching in the most recent printing of The Phoenix, and William Levere's "Paragraph History of Sigma Alpha Epsilon" I cannot find anything that would lead anyone to believe any of the founders were associated with Phi Gamma Delta prior to founding ΣAE.

Here is a direct quote from The Phoenix: "It is believed that none of the ΣAE founders was a member of defunct Kappa Alpha or or any other fraternity prior to their organizing ΣAE, although a number of them had been invited to join other groups, and DeVotie, the top scholar in his class, had been invited to join all of the Alabama fraternities."

I am, of course, willing to change my mind if there is significant citation to the contrary.

JJohnke 17:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

--They were all offered bids to Phi Gamma Delta, and all of them turned them down (obviously).

That hardly constitutes an "affiliation." When I think affiliation I think accepted bids and pledgeship. JJohnke 05:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Even if they were offered bids, the offering of bids back then and now went about much differently. They didn't attend rush events or anything like that. If they did have any sort of affiliation, it was brief, and never amounted to anything. If The Phoenix (I'm a Pike, not an SAE, so I assume that is either your pledge manual or active member history book) says the quote above, then I personally am satisfied. Jmlk17 06:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I understand there were differences in the bid process 151 years ago, but if several founders had been invited to join other groups they would be no more affiliated with those organizations than they were Phi Gamma Delta. Like I said, I'm willing to change my mind if anyone has significant citation to the contrary. I'm honestly intrigued to know if there's a part of my fraternity's founding I wasn't aware of or that is being omitted for some reason. I've got some other ΣAE history books packed up in my house that I'll have to unpack and scour for this information. JJohnke 19:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Good luck. It's always sorta neat to find out some weird, wacky, or interesting history about your house that you never knew before. Best. Jmlk17 18:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Phi Gamms claim that the SAE ritual was actually made by a Phi Gamm before he and his fellows became a Phi Gamm chapter at UA. The ritual texts were locked away and that early, unused ritual was what was used by the founders of SAE. But that was over 150 years ago and there are no records etc. It is the stuff of legend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PikeBoy (talk • contribs) 20:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Saecoat.png

Image:Saecoat.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 19:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

== To add to Notable Alumni: Kevin Grevey listing under broadcasting as CBS Sports NCAA basketball game commentator. listing under Professional Sports for Washington Bullets and [I'm not sure of second NBA team but it is on Grevey's Wiki page]. Kevin Grevey attended the University of Kentucy and was member of Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity. He was selected an a repeat Basketball All American in THE RECORD of SIGMA ALPHA EPSILON magazine sports articles. Grevey played under the Kentucky Coach Joe B. Hall.

Jack Rushing NM Tau and Texas Rho former Sports writer for THE RECORD OF SIGMA ALPHA EPSILON.

[edit] paddy murphy.

Their needs to be some info on the paddy murphy story. I will do it my self, but I dont know if I will have time to get to it very soon so if any one has the free time to put together a good blurb about it go for it. ΦA —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcdooglede (talk • contribs) 22:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)