Talk:Shura
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The procedure described here is not the way the all the scholars agree upon. The fact that the Amir makes a decision on his discretion without having to conform to the majority opinion IS a legitimate opinion of some scholars yet a weak one and has no strong evidence from the Quraan nor from the tradition of the Prophet. The Amir MUST go with the majority's decision or in other words, the majority opinion IS BINDING. It happened in all the incidents during the life of the Porphet. In addition to the clear proofs from the Quraan and the tradition of the prophet, the latter opinion protects the Shura process from the abuse of DICTATORS who claim to abide by Islamic rulings
[edit] Major revision
I followed the link to Shura and was appalled at what I saw. Not only was the account strongly Sunni, it also argued that only representative democracy was truly Islamic. While I tend to agree that representative democracy is the least bad of all alternatives <g>, I have to recognize that it is only sparsely represented in Islamic history, or in contemporary Muslim-majority states.
The article probably still needs lots of work, and indubitably needs more references, especially to traditionalist POVs. Zora 22:32, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Shoura is Not Binding, Amir's decision is binding
God commands His Messenger in AlQoraan "And (O Mohammad) counsel with them in the matter & were you to resolve (the matter), then trust in God (in executing the matter), verily God loves who trust in Him"[Q:__:__] & "And (O Believers) obey God & obey the Messenger & the ones with the command among you". [Q:__:__]. ILAKNA (talk) 05:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] 'Ali and his supporters only later submitted to Abu Bakr. In later years, the party of Ali (Shi'at Ali) split from the rest of the Muslim community over this question of succession, thus splitting the ummah into Sunni and Shi'a groups.'
The above statement seems to be incorrect & contradicts with information available elsewhere on this website. The 'split' was not because of the above-stated reason but because of the two versions of the Prophetic Hadith: "I leave behind what you were to adhere to will never err: God's Book (ie AlQoraan) and ..." , the first version contains "...my Sunnah." which was enacted in the dogma of Ahl AsSunnah, while the second version contains "...my Household ( or 'Ahle Bayti') which was enacted in the dogma of Sheeyaat Ahle Bayt. Now the question needs to be resolved whether Sheeyaat Ali were Sheeyaat Ahle Bayt? Or they were just Muslims splitting up in support of their leaders as Sheeyaat Osman & Sheeyaat Ali? Also at the Moubayaat of Abu Bakr as Caliph, was Ali a serious contender for leadership, because he was only 33 years old only, the bravest young-man in Madina at that time. At that time only elderly with life experience were selected for leadership. The questions raised at the Saqeefa were: whether there should be a contender from Awas & Khazraj & a contender from the Mohajarin? Which was not agreed, as it will divide the unity of Muslims, as there should be only one successor to an Islamic State. This shows that there are no parties in the Shoura System.The question of leadership of Ali, may be put by some, was never put seriously to become an issue discussed by the majority as with the contendership of Abu Bakr who was 61 years old for the leadership & the most respected in the Islamic community after the Prophet, being the first companion, the fast friend of the Prophet & the most knowledgeable about Islam after the Prophet. As to the contention by Sheeyaat Ahle AlBayt that Ali had the right of Islamic leadership after the Prophet indirectly inferring from the Prophetic Hadith of Ghadeer Khom, in which the Prophet states: "Ali's standing with me is like standing of {Prophet} Haroon with {Prophet} Mousa {ie. as of deputy or 'wazeer'}" & states: "Ali is Protector { or 'Maula'} of Muslims" [& the subsequent unproved contention that Ayaat of Wilayat was excluded from the Qoraan at the time of the first collection of Qoraan in the era of the first Caliph Abi Bakr] & the Imamate {or leadership } of Prophet Ibrahim [Q:2:124-126] & then narrowing down to the Imamate of Ahle AlBayt [Q:21:73] (..." we have made them imams { or leaders..}& then further narrowing down to Ali & his progeny from the Prophet's daughter Fatima in Prophetic Hadith of 'Folks of the Shirt' & the Hadith in which the Prophet asked his companions "give me pen & ink I will write the will" & then he changed his mind, the contention that he was prevented to do so, is totally discounted by the fact that if it were so, what prevented him in declaring directly such on the pulpit during the last two Friday sermons of his life, so it will become a public fact. He was ill for two weeks before he passed away on Monday, & during the last two days he was so ill as not able to attend the congregational prayers, but he was able to give the sermon on the last two Fridays & he knew he was in the illness of death, as he had confided to his daughter Fatima. And he made during that sickness to Muslims all the exhortations regarding general matters: to take care of one's prayers & take care of women & other matters, & the succession was a matter of prime importance at that instance & he never tackled it: meaning that it was a matter of shoura, & not excluded from it as contended by Shiyaat Ahle AlBayt. He never directly ordained either on the pulpit or otherwise that 'Ali will be head of the Islamic State after him'. If it were so, the Muslims would have not obeyed contrary to the Messenger's command [as it happened in the Caliphate of Omar when a companion in a Friday sermon stood up & said: "I will not obey you until you explain where you got the second part of your garment", Omar said to his son: "Abdullah, get up & explain" & when Abdullah had explained that he had gifted his part of war booty cloth to his father so he could have a complete garment, the questioner stood up & said: "Now, Omar I will obey you" after the doubt had been clarified] & there would have been a tumult as happened after the assassination of the Third Caliph. The absence of that discounts this contention.ILAKNA (talk) 08:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Truth
the Bible or Curan, or whatever you call it in your religion is the same read the Commandments. Thou shalt not kill. Period!!!!! Those who commit suicide bombings are NOT the martyrs, it is the innocents they are killing. The way I see it HELL will be filled with Islamic extremeists. Who kill because they like to. God DID NOT put us here to fight and kill who we could. He put us here, in His likeness. Satan has control of the rebels and has blindsided them. Alah, God, Muhammed whatever you call him is watching and waiting. HELL's doors will be opened and the evil will be swallowed. What a GLORIOUS day for the LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^VANDALISM^^^^^^^^^^^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.253.131 (talk) 03:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- You yelling at me? I'm a Buddhist. Zora 21:53, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
