Talk:Shield

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Contents 1 Improvement drive 2 The Illustrative Photo in this Article 3 Strange picture 4 Changing stuff like crazy today 5 Shield Evolution 6 Subsections 7 WPMILHIST Assessment 8 Shields Obsolete 9 Is it worth mentioning the shields from Super Smash Bros? 10 Nov '07 update

[edit] Improvement drive

[[[[[Heraldry has been nominated to be improved by Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. Vote for this article there if you want to contribute. --Fenice 19:56, 16 August 2005 (UTC) sup homee

[edit] The Illustrative Photo in this Article

This should be changed, as the photograph does not clearly show a shield, and the state of the statue isn't definitely focused enough to let people know what a shield is, should they somehow be unaware of that protective device.

[edit] Strange picture

Does anyone know anything about the illustrated shield (if that is what this is). I stumbled upon this image in Wikimedia commons.]]]]]

Image is probably a fiction. Looks someone conflated the Indian "punching sword", (see Katar) with a spiked boss. 'Targe' or 'target' is a French name for a peculiar type of Celtic shield used from ancient times up until the modern era, that was a round shield with a spiked boss.

I've done a little digging around, and it does appear to be a real weapon. Er. Shield. Er. ...thing. It's called a tarch, as the filename, and it's Russian in origin. If that's any help at all. Noctu 21:15, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changing stuff like crazy today

Continuing my multi-article adding/changing rampage, I'm editting buckler and tower shield. Arctic Warfare 19:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shield Evolution

I don't quite know the format for putting this up, so...

Petra: Small light shield of Greeks and Macedonians. Possibly the same as 'pelta' or peltarion, which is noted as being both crescent shaped and round. I suspect the 'crescent' shaped may refer to it's concavity. In any case, smaller then the Clipeus, and carried by skirmishing infantry (Peltasts). http://uoregon.edu/~klio/maps/gr/peltast2.jpg is the image provided, by may be made up.

Cetra/Targe: Small round Celtic shield, w/ center spike. Laminated wood? Parma: Small round Greco-Roman shield, strongly made, used metal in construction. Scutum: Large rectangular Roman shield; concave. 2.5' wide by 4' tall. -Early scutari are sometimes oval?

Clipeus: Large round Greek shield; held using strap (balteus)and central handle (umbo/boss). Concave. Wicker base, covered with ox-hide and edged with metal. Used by Homeric heroes, it later shrank in size. Later the balteus and central handle were discarded in favor of a series of ties. Gallic: Large oval Celtic shield, w/ boss. Probably laminated wood. Hoplon/Argive: Greek shield built around wood core, using balteus and grips? 15.5 lbs., 30-39" diameter, used in shield wall.

Shields in Phalanx listed as protecting more the person to the left then the person holding the shield; center boss may have been used as a place to 'hook' the elbow, so more then 1/2 of the shield covered the next person in line.

SOURCES
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_shield.html http://www.era.anthropology.ac.uk/Era_Resources/Era/Pitt_Rivers/shieweap/shgenex3.html#anchor1833799 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA/Warfare/home.html#weapons

[edit] Subsections

I added three subheaders, "Prehistoric and Antiquity", "Middle Ages" and "Modern Shields", just to break the article up to make editing easier. I moved the first picture a bit down so that it is in the first subsection now. I think the subheaders match the text as it is now, still, maybe someone better acquainted with the matter can take a look at them and rename or shift some text as necessary.

213.47.127.75 10:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WPMILHIST Assessment

A nice treatment of the subject, covering a large breadth across both space and time. I do not think there is any need to be exhaustive here, and thus I think things are more or less fine as they are. It might be nice to add an image of riot police shields or something equivalently modern, perhaps even replacing another picture, so as to hint at the great variety of shields that have existed across time. LordAmeth 17:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shields Obsolete

It is not gunpowder that made shields obsolete but plate armor. Plate armor made cutting weapons largely obsolete, forcing a switch to impact weapons such as maces, piercing weapons such as the estoc (tuck), and piercing weapons like the pick. Getting the force together to penetrate plate required two hands, and with plate armor impenetrable to most weapons (including early guns), the extra weight and encumbrance of a shield was no longer worth it.

Combined with this was a change in tactics to include the use of mass pike-hedges following the Swiss and german Landschnects. "Irregular" troops (who did not fight in line formation)continued to make use of the shield for a time. Archers still carried a buckler for personal protection into the 1650's, and the Scot's were still carrying small shields into the 1700's.

Theblindsage 23:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is it worth mentioning the shields from Super Smash Bros?

I was wondering weather it was worth it to add small bit on shields and there usage in the Super Smash Bros. video game series. It doesn't fit in any of the other shield categories i saw as it is unclear weather it is a energy t. From the rules I know I can add it but i was wondering if you guys thought it would be worth adding. Also the shield is barely mentioned in the main SSBM article. Mrobinson587 04:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No, that would be covered under the sentence mentioning energy shields. --Eyrian 12:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nov '07 update

I have made a number of substantial improvements to this article:

1) I removed references to the Tower shield. The term is a modern one derived from D&D. Histocial tower-like shields, the scutum and kite are already discussed.

2) I removed several poorly edited sentences that were redundant or unclear as to topic or contradictory.

3) I removed discussion of the buckler as "punching shield". The use of the term is unreferenced and inconsistent with this reference [1] already in use on the page. Also in I.33 over sixty pages of technique show only one punching technique.

4) Incorporated info from Theblindsage on the reasons for the obsolescence of shields.

Mercutio.Wilder (talk) 03:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)