Talk:Sgian dubh

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[edit] Plural

Anyone got any idea what the plural of sgian dubh might be? -- Gantlord

Yeah. "Sgian dubhs". :) Adraeus 01:29, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
In English, sure. But I think Gantlord is interested in it as a Gaelic word. The plural is sgianan, 'knives'.--Doric Loon 15:33, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
What is meant by "Gaelic"? Is that Irish Gaelic or Scots-Gaelic? They're two separate languages, for heaven's sake! Chainedwind 22:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Given that the article is about Scottish Highland dress, and that the mention of Gaelic is linked to "Scottish Gaelic", I think it's pretty obvious which language is meant. Flapdragon 23:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "doov"

I'd like to take a straw poll on that last change by an anonymous user. How many of us pronounce the bh of dubh as a v? Obviously that is the original Gaelic pronunciation of an aspirated b, but Gaelic spelling is very antiquated, and I personally wouldn't pronounce dubh that way in modern Gaelic. But anyway, it is the pronunciation in English which counts here, and I don't think I've ever heard it that way. Comments? --Doric Loon 21:18, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I say "skee-in Doo" or "sken-du" depending on my mood. No "B's" or "V's" at the end. Drhaggis 01:50, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I say "skee-in Doo", like Drhaggis, but I usually close my lips at the end of "Doo", as if I were going to pronouce a "B" but then change my mind. This cuts off the "oo" sound and keeps it from turning into "skee-in Doooo". JHCC 18:00, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Englishman's blood

Someone told me he had been told in Scotland that there's an tradition about the Sgian Dubh saying if you once take it out of the stocking you're only allowed to put it back if there's blood of an Englishman on it. Is that true? I know it cannot be practic<ed, but is something like that told in Scotland?--Hun2 11:04, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a standard macho myth associated with many kinds of knives. I've heard variations of this story about the Sgian Dubh, but no such tradition exists that I can verify. -Dr Haggis - Talk 23:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

When I take mine out, it's usually to trench the gushing entrails of a haggis at the end of January. The story of the blood is also said about the swords of the British Burmese regiments. Commonplace motif. --Doric Loon 02:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Thinking practically given that scotland was at war with England comparitively rarely (despite popular perception) and the Sgian Dubh was worn constantly it would be rather rare to put one back in your sock. 82.41.31.24 (talk) 15:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks to scots

I'm a catalan interested in your culture and knives, owner of a black knife bought my last visit to Scotland (second hand in a market). I'm going to use this info to enlighten a friend, half scottish, about his origins. Thanks for your info about Sgian Dubh!

[edit] Capitalisation

Why is Dubh capitalised in this article? --Doric Loon 12:27, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

It may not be a proper name, but it is commonly capitalized. LHOON 14:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Is that actually the case? I'm sure it is sometimes capitalized, but I have mostly seen it uncapitalized, as are most of the occurrences of the word in this article. Lesgles (talk) 00:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Utility, ceremonial or weapon?

From the article: "is a ceremonial dagger" ... "was originally a utility item" ... "any concealed weapons would be revealed". These statements seem to be contradictory, or at least amiguous. The overall tone of the article seems to suggest it's a utility item, but the opening sentence confuses that. Suggest clarification, and the removal of the word "ceremonial" if appropriate. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 13:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible alternative origin

I remeber when I was younger being told that the Sgian Dubh was called the black knife because after a battle fatally wounded soldiers would have their throats cut with them as a mercy killing, rather then having them die slowly and painfully on the battlefield. Hence the name the black knife. I was told this when I was in Junior school by a group of historical re-enactors of some sort who were telling us about traditional highland battle equipment and dress at the time of the Jacobite rebelion.

Is this true and if so does anyone know a more reliable source citing it. It seems credible to me but may just be a urban myth grown up in recent times as an explanation. 82.41.31.24 (talk) 15:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but this is not true, a sgian dubh was knife first used as a hidden weapon when scots were banned the holding of weapons, it would be hidden in the arm pit, when in the house of a host you would put your sgian dubh in your sock to show you had no hidden intentions of harming them. When this became a tradition and the lords starting wearing them in the sock it the lords would have them in very high quality, a black wood, also known as the dress sgin dubh, after the lords began to wear them in the black wood it became fashion and so a name was thought for them "sgian dubh". Hope this has helped, they were used for mecy killings i think but this is not where the name came from, my eason has great factual basing and you can tell this when you look at a dress sgian dubh, it is black so makes sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.157.101 (talk) 21:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Dagger"??

Why is the sgian dubh referred to as a "dagger" throughout the article? Sgian simply means knife. Biodag would be a better gaelic term for dagger, and is the word used to refer to the Scottish dirk. The sgian dubh doesn't fit the description of a dagger. I think the article would be better if references to daggers were replaced with references to knives.--Mathandubh (talk) 11:50, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Quite right, a knife is a single bladed article, whereas a knife has a double edged blade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.157.101 (talk) 21:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)