Talk:Sexual orientation and military service

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The title of this page is kind of clunky. -Branddobbe 07:43, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Naah. It's just fine. Dveej 06:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 How do they check 2 Sources 3 Russia 4 "Countries that allow homosexual people to serve openly" 5 Links to sources of info about LGBTs serving in the military of each country 6 Duplication 7 China? 8 World Map Photo 9 Dubious Link

[edit] How do they check

How do the Italian, Litzburgish etc armies find out of someone is gay?

Er why would they want to find out if someone is gay. Since both the Italian and Luxembourg (I guess that's what you meant) armies allow homosexuals to openly server, I don't think there is any reason why they would want or care about whether or not people are homosexual or heterosexual. Incidentally, the Italian army apparently allows female to serve so it isn't just gay men but lesbian women Nil Einne 12:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

Anybody want to, uh, attach sources to all of this? --Penta 22:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Russia

gays with their sexual identity problems would be drafted only in wartime. Well adjusted gays are OK.

What exactly is a well adjusted gay and a gay with sexual identity problems? Nil Einne 14:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I was just about to comment on that. In the meantime, I changed it to

In Russia, those alleged to have "sexual identity problems" are to be drafted only during wartime. "Well adjusted gays" are permitted to serve in a normal capacity.

Obviously, this isn't a permanent fix, and I've yet to find a source for this information. Bhumiya 03:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

It now sounds from the intro that this policy is somewhat similar to that of Singapore national service Gay rights in Singapore where effimate gays are considered different from non-effimate gays and have different restrictions (although in the Russian case it appears non-effimate gays are okay). Interestingly enough, in both cases being an effimate heterosexual man doesn't appear to be such a problem Nil Einne 12:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Countries that allow homosexual people to serve openly"

The section should be renamed since in some countries (e.g. Czech Republic) it simply doesn't matter and it may not explicitly mentioned in laws or regulations. Pavel Vozenilek 03:10, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Ireland is listed in the non-discrimatory list. However, the Irish have a historic policy of prosecuting gays and although no-one has been prosocuted recently, no offical policy statement in favour of LGBT participation has been issued. Maybe Ireland fits better under dont ask, don't tell?

[edit] Links to sources of info about LGBTs serving in the military of each country

That's the longest subject I have ever written! But I think that this article would be even better if there were sources for each country's policy, and better yet if there were also links to personal stories/anecdotes about LGBTs who have served or are serving now. I realize that personal stories and anecdotes are stretching the purview of an encyclopedia; however if you think about it, such stories are indeed relevant to the topic. Perhaps in order to avoid too much NPOV controversy such stories and anecdotes could be listed in a section like "External Links"?

And on a related tangential note: Many of us LGBTs use things like Wikipedia in order to find out about other LGBTs in the world, to break through our isolation and to find out what is happening with people like us in other countries and in our own countries. I know that sexual orientation is a divisive topic, and in fact there have been talk page edit wars between people seeking to remove references to homosexuality from an article and people wishing to keep such references in (I am thinking about the Vladimir Horowitz article, for example). Maybe some wise admin could start a discussion somewhere about this (sorry if they already have and I didn't know)... I don't want to be divisive, but at the same time I don't want to submit to what seems to me to be unfair and NPOV bias against LGBTs. Dveej 07:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duplication

Almost all of the United States' history section is a straight copy and paste from the "Don't ask, don'ttell article. Freddie42 07:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

It's also far, far too long. Imagine an equivalent of that for Britain, France, Russia...! If a piece of that length really is justified apart from the Don't ask, don't tell article then it should be broken out from this article and moved to something like Sexual orientation in the United States military. Loganberry (Talk) 03:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest removing the US section and replacing it with a section of recent changes in policys and on-going debates which can then link to other countires more detailed histories.Matchrthom 19:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I was bold and removed the section. As people have said, it's a duplication from the Don't ask don't tell article which has been here since April 2006 but is clearly unnecessary in this article. There might be some merit for a tiny section on the current changes & debates but no more then one paragraph Nil Einne 12:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] China?

The beginning of the article states that China does not allow homosexuals to serve openly, but it is not mentioned for the rest of the article--neither in the "ban" section nor the "Other policies" section. Can anyone provide more information?

[edit] World Map Photo

Someone should make a map showing the countries that do, and do not. Most topics like this do, but this one doesn't o.O

I have no knowledge of this issue, but I tried to make a map...

     Nations that do not bar openly homosexual people from serving in the military.     Nations with semi-ambiguous policies ("don't ask, don't tell," etc.)     Nations with a ban on homosexual people in the military.

--^hello,gadren 05:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for making the map, but at the moment it doesn't reflect the true situation, since many countries coloured blue actually do not accept gay people in the military. For one, there are some countries which we do not know the policy of - these should be coloured grey. Secondly, there are countries, in Africa and the Middle East, in which homosexuality is illegal. Some of these are currently coloured blue, but they should be coloured red. I will make this change when I can. Ronline ✉ 12:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Could you also please add an additional category of "Not Applicable" for countries such as Iceland that don't have a military. -Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.30.222.56 (talk) 07:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious Link

"The Military's Ban Against Homosexuals Should Remain"

The aforementioned link leads to a personal web blog authored by a college student. While a dissenting view point would be a positive contribution to the article, I think a more scholarly source is needed. Um'kay?