Talk:Selling England by the Pound

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Pardon my pedantry, but is the 13-minute pastoral folky "Cinema Show", with its lyrics about Greek myth, and lenghthy mellotron-back synthesizer solo in 7/4 time, really what we'd "particularly" call "stadium rock" (or "arena rock")?

If we must talk about genres, it seems pretty "prog" to me.... --feline1 07:26, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Takin' that down.--Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 04:25, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


I know that there's been speculation about who wrote what, and some later interviews on that matter, but I think that the individual songwriting credits should be removed, because 1) the official releases of the album credit each of the songs to Genesis as a whole, 2) the band's official website, which is current, also credits each of the songs on this album to Genesis as a whole, and 3) part of the friction leading to Gabriel's departure has been attributed to the 'all songs done by all' attitude. --Hriped 07:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. It is also legally incorrect, as the copyright ownership in the songs is indeed split equally between all band members.--feline1 11:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Banks wrote the cinema show and firth of fifth lyrics,they just dont sound very gabriel

From what I've read, he cowrote both songs' lyrics with Rutherford, but Gabriel contributed the idea to say "Romeo" and "Juliet" in the former. Ftg3plus4 (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
While the current wording is legally correct, this shouldn't prevent us from adding more detail in a footnote section (with sources, of course). CJCurrie 04:51, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure that it is a good idea for an encylopedic entry to use a sentence such as "It is considered by many fans to be one of the best overall albums the band produced.", particularly without citation, even if it is true. -- 68.239.49.94 03:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)Thomas G. Marshall

Contents

[edit] Backing vocals

Where does the information come from that Steve Hackett sang backup on "I Know What I Like"? He rarely, if ever, did backing vocals for Genesis. This needs a citation, or it should be removed.

[edit] Length

I am curious as to how the album fit on the LP. From my limited knowledge of LPs, I know there is about 20 minutes per side, so I was wondering how the whole album fit as it is 53 minutes long?Nathanalex 04:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

An LP can easily hold 30 minutes per side. Longer sides are possible, sacrificing sound quality by using a narrower groove. MFNickster 05:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
No, LPs most certainly did not "easily hold 30 minutes per side," the number is more like 25 minutes, "easily," with a bit more at the risk of reduced audio quality. Todd Rundgren famously tried to squeeze as much music as he could on the sides of his "A Wizard, A True Star" LP released in 1973, and that one timed out at slightly less than 56 minutes total. AWATS was notorious for having inferior sound quality as a result. For the benefit of Nathanalex, the first side of the LP of "Selling England By The Pound" ended with "More Fool Me," and the second side began with "Battle of Epping Forest," if you'd like to figure out how much time was on each side. (This is from personal knowledge; I had this LP till I wore the grooves off it in the early-to-late seventies).--B. Polhemus (talk) 06:18, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Based on the track times on the CD version, side two of this album came out to 28:41. That qualifies as unusually long, though other LPs have had longer sides. For example, one LP by ex-Genesis member Anthony Phillips, "Twelve", is about 65 minutes long. (And while we're mentioning Todd Rundgren, his "Initiation" LP was longer than any other album mentioned here.) BTW, LP sides exceeding 25 minutes were common for Genesis from "Foxtrot" thru "Duke" (the latter of which ran over 55 minutes). Ftg3plus4 (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Swanwick painting

The original painting did not feature a lawn mower; Gabriel added it later as an allusion to the song "I Know What I Like".

According to 'Genesis: A biography' by Bowler and Dray, "The band approached [Swanwick] to do a new painting for the sleeve..because of time restrictions she modified the existing one, adding the lawnmower and garden fork." Whitespacebug 22:12, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Apologies...my mistake. I corrected it. Jphillst 16:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requesting More Information for "More Fool Me"

Hello, I created an article for "More Fool Me" because all of the other tracks off of "Selling England by the Pound" have articles but "More Fool Me" did not. I have no idea what time signatures are, thus I have no idea what time signature More Fool Me is in. If anybody knows what time signature this song is in, please add it to the article. Also, did Steve Hackett provide the guitar on this track? I'm assuming it was him, as the album credits don't say that Mike Rutherford or Tony Banks provided it. If one of them did, please make revisions. Thank you.

Like father like son, nor flesh nor fish nor bone. I am Teh_Squonkz 06:51, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

"Teh Squonkz," a "time signature" refers to the number of "beats" per measure of music, a convenient way to chart out how the music proceeds. The most typical "time signature" (or, if you prefer, "rhythm") is "four-four," or 4/4, or "common time," variously. This would be ONE-two-Three-four, with a big emphasis on the first beat of the measure and a slightly lesser emphasis on the third beat. The "second-most" typical time is "three-four," or "3/4" time, often called "waltz time" as the music for that dance is always in 3/4. The rhythm is ONE-two-three, with a big emphasis on the first beat.

"More Fool Me" is in "common time," or four-four. It is really not necessary to mention that time signature in your article, since it isn't very noteworthy. All the discussions of time signatures for other songs on the album are because they are UNUSUAL, such as the 7/8 time signature during the extended vamp section in "Cinema Show." Other Genesis-related songs with "unusual" time signatures are Peter Gabriel's "Solsbury Hill," which is primarily in 7/4 time, and "Dance On A Volcano" with its alternating 7/8 and 6/8 bars.

Hope that helps.--B. Polhemus (talk) 06:31, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

As Start Class. All the relevant info is there, and it just needs some references, esp to UK chart position, see [1] for these. Also there is a lot of unsourced opinion in the "Sound & Live performance" section. References to Gabriel's "bluebell" hat, corn stalk & miming during "lawnmower", and pictured if possible, would be a useful addition. --Rodhullandemu (talk - contribs) 02:20, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Songwriting Credits

As noted above, all tracks are credited to the members of Genesis jointly; if anyone feels they should be added as separate attributions, this should go in a separate section, and be sourced. Meanwhile there's a ton of original research here which should go, or be supported. If anyone's got Gallo's book, that is a good place to source stuff (mine is many miles away). This album deserves a proper rewrite. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 01:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)