Talk:Seine

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[edit] Thumbnail map

I don't see the point of the thumbnail map here. It's so small that the word "Seine" isn't even legible. (Also, it should be a PNG or GIF, not a JPEG, as should the larger version.) --Zundark 13:56 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

I've prepared a PNG version of the large map. It's much cleaner and about half the filesize. But I don't know if I should upload it, because I'm not sure that we have any right to use this map in Wikipedia. The image description page says that it can be used for non-commercial purposes, but I can't see where this is stated on the Infoplease site. --Zundark 14:38 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

Zundark, I'm responsible for putting the JPG map on the Seine site, I clipped it out of the infoplease site. I thought it OK to do so because the Terms and and Conditions say "Visitors may download one (1) single copy of the copyrighted material for Visitor's personal, non-commercial use only. Except as otherwise expressly permitted under copyright law, no copying, redistribution, retransmission, publication or commercial exploitation of downloaded material will be permitted without the express written permission of Family Education Network (or the copyright owner(s)". Whether that means it's OK for Wikipedia I can't be sure but it sounded OK to me.

On the subject of minimising file sizes, I obviously have a lot to learn!

You ask what the point of the thumbnail is, I put it there because then the reader knows not only that a bigger pic is available but also what it will look like. Then they know if they want to wait for the big one to download. Call it a preview if you like.

I don't know if you intended to put the 502pixel pic directly onto the article page but I think such a size may be too large for people using 800 by 600 resolution (fine for me, I use 1024 by 768). The large pic would squeeze the flowed text into too narrow a channel. (unless you insert it stand-alone) -- Arpingstone 17:29 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

About the copyright: "personal, non-commercial use only". I don't see how uploading it to Wikipedia counts as personal use. Also, you removed the copyright notice on the image, which is contrary to a later sentence on the Terms of Use page. So I'm going to add these images to Wikipedia:Votes for deletion. Sorry.

About minimising image file sizes: JPEG is intended for photographic images and it's usually a bad idea to use it for anything else; PNG files will generally be smaller and better quality for things like maps and diagrams. (If I recall correctly, you use Photoshop, which reportedly has very poor PNG compression. But you could always use pngcrush to recompress the PNG files that Photoshop produces. There's also PNGOUT, which usually does better than pngcrush on paletted images. Unlike JPEG, PNG is a lossless format so the image quality is never harmed by recompressing.)

--Zundark 19:23 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

I've replaced the map with a copyright-free one from the University of Texas map site. With Photoshop 6.0 I could only get conversion to PNG, from the map's original format of JPG, to come out bigger!! I don't know enough to work command lines or Linux (I have Windows ME) so I can't use the "crushers" you named. So I just made the JPG as small as possible consistent with decent quality so that a big one wouldn't be needed. -- Adrian Pingstone 10:13 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

Once the image is in JPEG format the damage is already done - converting to PNG won't do much good. (The PNG I did of the other map was made directly from the original GIF, not from your JPEG.) It's possible to fiddle about with the image in an image editor, and then save as a PNG (see Wikipedia:How to reduce colors for saving a JPEG as PNG), but the result won't be as good as it would have been if the image had never been JPEGed. I might try this somewhen, but it's probably not worth the effort. --Zundark 15:51 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

If you're happy with my Seine map, then lets just leave it as it is. Thanks for all the information -- Adrian Pingstone 17:21 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] List of painters unreferenced

The Seine#Painters section needs references. I fixed several of the WP:redlinks since there were existing articles for some of them, but skimming through those articles and others provided no clues as to whether the Seine was a subject of their work. The section-wide {{Disputed-list}} can be replace with per-painter use of {{List fact}} if anyone ever gets around to improving this section. 66.167.253.56 (talk) 01:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC).