Talk:SectionZ/Archive 1
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This page is intended to be contributed to by members of the SectionZ.com website. A news post at http://sectionz.com has been posted calling for site members to add their contributions to the website, and these are things are /intended/ for this page but simply have not yet been posted. - Draconum 19:58, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
z@sectionz.com - Z here .. many thanks to Draconum for getting this started. We have a bunch of stuff to post here, history, FAQ .. how to use the site and alot more. Please give us some time to get a bit more organized.
This is just one user's two cents: Just because you have a website, and people are committed to creating an entry on Wikipedia, doesn't mean it needs an entry. What is the assertion of notability of this web site? Why would anyone need to see it in an encyclopedia? Who are the artists who contribute to sectionz.com that the average fan of electronica has heard of? What does the site have that makes it important or unique? In addition, most of the information being placed on the Wikipage is just stuff you should leave on the web site. Why not just put a "history" section and/or an "about" section on sectionz.com? Also, even if this Wiki were to remain, it would be incredibly unencyclopedic. The page needs to be highly wikified. (Wikipedia:Guide_to_layout) I'm not an administrator (and have never claimed to be), but if I had the option, I would delete this article unless someone could provide context on why it's necessary. - Kicking222 19:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
We wanted to start a community editable FAQ so the average user can assist in creating How To(on sectionz), grow an unofficial FAQ, share in community triumphs like the SEMG and signings, etc.. SectionZ has been around for a very long time and has seen many of its members go pro. Notables include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadmau5 - Toby Emerson (Sony) - Substanze(Various Norwegan lables) and quite a few others. SZ has also been a pioneer in the music community aspect well before sites like Flickr set the standard for what a art sharing community should be like and we will assert that in future edits but we just started this TODAY for christs sake! People like yourself might look at SectionZ and see what you see on the everyday web, but SZ has been doing it for YEARS. Before magnatune, before myspace, the entire community has worked to solidify a sense of ideas that is commonplace on the web today and we feel others should know about it in an encyclopedic context.
A member joins SectionZ because they know that they will not just promote themselves but that they will gain valuable feedback from peers that will help them accomplish more with music and absolutely free. Not to mention the valuable knowledge that our members can share on other Wiki's regarding electronic music and music theory. I really hope that this Wiki stays.(Sectionz 20:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC))
Kicking22 - I can't believe that you actually care whether this wiki entry stays here or not. If its all the same to you, I'd rather have Sz take its rightfull place in the Wikipedia - because it is a genuinly POSITIVE community which has been around for ages, and which has spawned many a bedroom composer... So what if none of the members have made it MEGA-big yet... with the current rate of music talents popping in there, im 100% sure that it will earn its rightfull place in internet history, in the current music pantheon - amongst mp3.com and soundclick.com. Even though its not quite as big as two beforementioned, Sz community is pretty tightly knit, and genuinly interesting in helping each other grow and evolve. Just go and check out soundclicks wiki entry and then you will see what im aiming at. NONE of the thousands of people using it actually cares for it enough to contribute to its WIKI entry. So please. Check Sz wiki page from time to time, and you will undoubtingly witness the love its members have for it. SectionZ will be huge. Just you wait and see...(nCn 22:28, 3 April 2006 (UTC))
nCn- Kicking22 should care if this article stays or not. He want's wikipedia to be a high quality encyclopedia. We should welcome Kicking22's comments, because they raise very good points. We should get this article up to par. If it is a good article, I don't think it will be deleted. --William sharkey 21:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, William sharkey. I couldn't have said it better myself. If you guys can show why this is a notable web site (which you seem to definitely be working on), then I, as just one of the millions of members of the Wikipedia community, have absolutely no problem with this page staying on the site. As far as what you said, nCn, I'm all for positivity, and I think a community that brings people together is wonderful- but that does not, by default, make said community notable. Additionally, just because you think a web site will become big in no way means it will be. If you want sectionz.com to have an entry and can explain why, then awesome- I'm glad you're able to express your love for something. (Just check out Splashdown, my favorite band, but one that few people have ever heard of. I pretty much wrote the entire page.) With that said, I used Splashdown's page to assert notability (movie soundtracks, inclusion on Lilith Fair, members' other projects, etc.), but I didn't use it to say, "These guys should have been big." If you're writing the sectionz Wiki to say, "This site should be big," then you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. - Kicking222 01:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Kicking - I think the issue here is that all this happened basically right after the page was first added onto wikipedia... our concern is that we haven't had enough time to flesh out the page. We wern't even planning to make as many additions to this page as we did today, but we were afraid of losing the page.
Also, it appeared that right off the bat you seemed to doubt that there was anything important about the commnunity.. a reasonable assumption considering the lack of information on the page, but again, the page is new and we simply hadn't enough time to coordinate all that nonesense so quickly. Your comments seemed to assume that we considered the page complete and had little more info to add (and it's still got a long way to go as it is).
It can partly be chalked up to the fact that I just kind of decided to make the wiki page without having any information personally, i had to run around and grab it from everybody in the irc chat to get it all up there. So a good deal of all this is my fault. I didn't realize that wikipedia was such a cutthroat business that pages a couple hours old had to be relatively complete, and I was counting on the ability to add to it over time to make it reach that level of completeness.
In any event, your comment seemed pretty unsupportive and discouraging by the tone of it, and it almost seemed insulting, which may partly have been due to the fact that I was already frusterated, although I'm not the only person who took it that way. I understand what a wiki article SHOULD be, but I think it's ridiculous for things to be deleted/flagged so quickly with hardly a warning or helpful/concise explanation of the exact problem (and yes, I did read the Wikipedia critera. I didn't find it entirely helpful). It makes it seem like you have to be a pro at wiki'ing before even attempting to make a wiki page, and I guess being used to being a member of a website based entirely on peer review and constructive criticism - without an attitude - made me expect different. But I appreciate the fact that you seemed to come around on the issue upon some additions to the page, it made me realize that you really wern't trying to flame us; it just initially came off that way... Draconum 06:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Additionally, I'd like to restate what Z has said in that SectionZ has been one of the first (if not THE first) communities of its kind, and as a matter of fact (that I am aware, at least), several sites owned by big corporations have, arguably, since included features similar to those introduced on SectionZ.com prior to their existance. brb suggested acidplanet.com, although not having been there I wouldn't exactly be quite sure what he meant. Since I don't know the /details/ of these sorts of things - essentially the significance of SectionZ overall in the internet and music-production culture thus far, and since I was counting on those who DO know to add them when they can, I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing half-formed statements that may be inaccurate onto the wiki just so that it doesn't get deleted...
Another notable thing I suppose is that many artists who have started on sz are fairly important ones; i.e. a few, for example, that have worked on the FLStudio software - an award-winning softsynth studio and sequencer sold online and in stores worldwide - i.e. Toby Emerson, who according to Z is now signed under Sony. Other artists have contributed to Smirnoff ad-campaigns or released albums commercially in some shape or form. It's not a huge list at the moment but it grows as time goes on.. That being said, the site has been and will be a bedrock for important people, even if you perhaps haven't heard of them, or even if they are on their way to becoming more important than they are... it's not like it's something that hasn't bloomed to any extent yet. It's just that it improves and expands over time, and sometimes exponentially. (a form of this comment I believe is on the wiki page right now)
My point is this - sz is a big deal, has been, will continue to be, and eventually the page will successfully and accurately reflect and assert that.
And sharkey, I don't disagree. The page CAN, WILL, and SHOULD improve. I just think everything that's happened has really done so with wayyy too negative a connotation (your page will be deleted if you don't fix it right now!?!?) - I'd appreciate a more 'wait and see' approach to this flagging business.
Draconum 06:24, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Now our issue is finding the defintion of notability which qualifies our page for inclusion into Wikipedia.
This is a bit of a conundrum because SectionZ both falls under 'music' and 'websites' (it is for all intents and purposes a 'music website'). On the one hand, it could be considered an independent label, in others a community of musicians from which have arisen commercial artists that have gone on to other labels at times. As well, it obviously is a website, a long-standing and well-established one. The issue is figuruing out who exactly has been watching SZ.
As for musical notability, Joshua Hernandez, AKA Z - the founder - has been a guest on a radio show to talk specifically about the flourishing success and progress of the community (audio at http://www.sectionzmusic.com/detail.asp?SZID=17145). Music from sectionz artists was played. This seems to meet musical criteria, doesn't it, or am I mistaken?
I also believe (but am unsure of the specific details) that a few SectionZ artists - which rely on the site for exposure - have been independently contacted by radio stations that have sought them out through the web site. I believe a notable and prominent community member who this has happened for would be the member JFM, although there could possibly be others that I'm unaware of.
Again these are things that I personally am not comfortable with adding to the page, for the most part, because I would want to know the specific details (meaning I would most likely turn to Z for alot of this information) but I think some of this might be relevent to asserting our importance. 162.82.215.199 12:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
We still under review here? (Sectionz 18:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC))
