Talk:Scottish American
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page. |
| NB: Assessment ratings and other indicators given below are used by the Project in prioritizing and managing its workload. | |
| ??? | This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project's quality scale. |
| ??? | This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project's importance scale. |
 |
After rating the article, please provide a short summary on the article's ratings summary page to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses. |
|
WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:
|
|
 |
Scottish American is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page. | ||
| Stub | This article has been rated as stub-Class on the quality scale. | ||
| ??? | This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. | ||
|
Article Grading: |
|||
|
WikiProject Scotland To-do:
|
|||
Contents |
[edit] Sectarianism rears it's ugly head
There has been Scottish catholic emigrates to North America, Flora MacDonald is one of the many Jacobites fled to North Carolina and Maryland. You can't argue all Scottlish immigrants where protestant obviously the vast majority were, but it's very hard to believe that all were protestant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.213.30.155 (talk) 20:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Scotland Portal
The Scotland Portal is now up and running. It is a project in the early stages of development, but I think it could be a very useful resource indeed, perhaps more for general readers (the vast majority I presume), rather than committed editors, who may be more attracted by the great possibilities of the notice board format: Wikipedia:Scottish Wikipedians' notice board.
Give it a Watch, and lend a hand if you can. It is (hopefully) fairly low-maintenance, but if we run with the "News" section, that will take dedication: time which I cannot commit to presently myself. Most other boxes need replacment/update only weekly, fortnightly, or monthly, plus the occasional refreshment of the Scotland-related categories. Anyway, I assume this is how the other Portals are run, so we can follow their lead.
Please add the following code - {{portalpar|Scotland}} - to your own User page, and you will have the link to the portal right there for easy access. I will investigate how other portals use shortcuts too.
Assistance from Wikipedians in the rest of the world would be greatly appreciated!--Mais oui! 09:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Moved this opinionated text from the article to the talk page:
Disclaimer: in the United States, the overwhelming majority of persons said to have Scottish ancestry are somewhat more accurately "Scotch-Irish". This distinction is important, since this group descends from settlers deriving from the borderlands of both Scotland and England. Indeed the entire region from Edinburgh south to Newcastle was originally united to the kingdom of Northumbria and consisted of Anglo-Saxons. To be certain whether any named individual has actual Scottish ancestry or not, genealogical research is absolutely necessary.
Failing that, if the person has an English last name, one can be sure that he has an English ancestor.
Further, no verifiable evidence of ancestry and genealogy is provided for each of the above names.
Use at your own risk!
[edit] Mel
Aren't there two small problems with characterising Mel Gibson as a "Scottish" "American"? (As opposed to, US-born person with some unspecified degree of Scots ancestry.) I think similar threshold/identification concerns might be raised about many on this list, in fact. Alai 18:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Michael Douglas
I have removed Michael Douglas from the list as his father Kirk Douglas was born Issur Danielovitch in Amsterdam, New York to Herschel Danielovitch and Bryna Sanglel, Belarusian Jewish parents. The family only took a western name so they would fit into American society better. Therefore they cant be classified as Scottish Americans.
Thats fair enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Myself0101 (talk • contribs) 14:54, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ulster Scots
"Scottish Americans are closely related to Scots-Irish Americans, also called Ulster-Scots, who in the US are treated as part of a common ethnic group. The Ulster-Scots originally came from the lowlands and border country of Scotland before migrating to Ulster, and hence to North America"
Scots, Scots-Irish, Welsh and English are part of a common ethnic group and genetically so are the Irish. This paragraph should be amended as it's stating something both misleading and redundant. The Ulster-Scots are actually descendants of people from the Scottish lowlands and the north of England. Enzedbrit 21:56, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
True, the Scots/Ulster-Scots, Welsh and English are part of a larger British supra-ethnic grouping, but they are by no means part of the same specific ethnic group. This whole article however needs proper referenceing and seems mainly to be from someone's original research. I do need to stress here though that the Irish are ethnically not considered British, and thesmelves especially do not conisder as such (and most would also take great offence at such). If your basing from genetic studies, which again are limited and inconclusive, the Irish do in fact differentiate from the other peoples of Britain and share as much, if not more, commonality with the Basques (especially those with origins from the west of the island). It needs to be noted that such genetic similarities do not necessarily indicate recent historical lineages or links between the peoples and this especially makes sense with regards to the Basques. Epf 04:38, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
- Whatever the Irish have in common with the Basques, the British will have this too albeit in a more diluted form since they received far more migration than did the Irish. The paragraph in question needs to be changed as what it is saying is irrelevant. It's like saying you live nextdoor to one neighbour but not the other. Scots moved to Northern Ireland, English moved to Northern Ireland, Scots moved to England, English moved to Scotland, Irish moved to Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. How though do English and Scottish remain distinct but Scots-Irish stay so close? It's quite fanciful. Also, I've never heard the term Scots-Irish used in Britain. I think this is a very American classification.Enzedbrit 10:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
The term Scots-Irish (or Scotch-Irish) is used in Ulster, although the term Ulster-Scots is used far more, especially in UK statistics. 69.157.126.88 02:58, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, that might just be the case but you have added the piece back in and said the edit was 'unexplained'. That is not true because it is debated here above and also given on the edit summary. The piece, I have removed because it states something confusing. The Scottish people being closely related to Ulster-Scots or Scots-Irish, whichever term, why is it there? The 'relationship' between ethnic groups as profiled in articles on Wikipedia at best is frought with so much speculation and contention. On what is it based that these groups are closely related? Why state this and omit more obvious other relationships between the peoples on the same isle? The paragraph serves no purpose. The Scots-Irish/Ulster-Scots were also sond by many migrants from the north of England. To rely on the name of the group of these people as a recommendable source of their heritage shows a flaw in research. Enzedbrit 08
- 51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
- I have again removed what I consider a rubbish paragraph. Scots-Irish are thus because they recognise their descent from migrants to Ulster from Northern England and Scotland. To say that they're closely related to Scottish people makes no sense. They are as equally related to all British and Irish people. There will be no blood similarity to Scottish people that they don't share with English or Irish as most of indigenous Britons and Irish people are majority aboriginal, of the same stock. The Scots-Irish share no cultural pecularity with Scotland that is unique and distinguishes itself from the rest of the British Isles. Any implied ultra-kinship with Scotland would have to be farce or a form of ethnic nationalism, the best way that I can describe it.Enzedbrit 09:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] list of people
I removed the list of people from this article, for the 2nd time, and placed it in the 'List of Scottish Americans' article where it belongs. Why: because every other article in this category 'Ethnic groups in the United States' does not have a list of people. Lists are only to be found in the 'Lists of American people by ethnic or national origin' category. There is no reason that the Scottish people articles or categories should have any special treatment. Questions? Read the articles and categories. Thanks Hmains 23:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] List of people II
I replaced the list of people into this article. Why? Because it is an article which is quite self contained. Please refrain from deleting this list in future. Whether or not other groups in the United States have lists or not is completely irrelevant, not about special treatment. Questions? This article is not a clone of any others and there are no rules governing such. Cheers.
81.158.173.141 12:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Figures
"In the 2000 Census, 10.9 million Americans reported Scottish ancestry, 10.7% of the total US population. Given Scotland's population (just over 5 million), there are almost as many Scottish Americans as there are native Scots living in their home country."
Might be missing something here but I'm not sure these figures add up. The US census in 2000 gave a population of around 281 million, so 10.9 million would be only 3.9% of the population. Also 10.9 million is clearly twice the population of Scotland rather than 'almost as many'.
Freelancescientist 16:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] General Depth and Quality of the Entry
As a proud Scot, I'd love to know that our Heritage was depicted fully on Wikipedia, particularly in this field of Scottish American, as it does dishearten me a great deal when so many of my friends and colleagues (American and Canadian) tell me out of the blue "you'll never guess what, I did my family tree and I am Scots not Irish". "Well" I say "Did you realise that so many Scots stopped off in Ireland before continueing to America, that when asked on arrival where they had come from, they naturally said Ireland"
Of course I don't expect Wikipedia to fix this historical anomoly but I would like the articles to make reference to this and many other cultural and historical facts.
When I look at the Irish American listing, it is wonderful. It has images, in depth text and a depth and quality the Scots American listing could only dream about. Just look at the index and compare it to ours.
Contents 1 Immigration to America 1.1 Scots-Irish 1.2 Catholics 1.3 Occupations 2 Discrimination and prejudice 3 Stereotypes and images 4 Irish settlement in the South 5 Sense of heritage 6 Irish in politics and government 6.1 Presidents of Irish Descent 7 Contributions to literature and the arts 8 Popular culture 9 See also 10 References 10.1 General Surveys 10.2 The Catholic Irish 10.3 The Protestant Irish 11 External links 11.1 Communities
So come on you proud Scottish Americans and Ulster Scots for that matter, lets fill in some of the blanks and give our proud heritage the publicity it deserves. Of course I will do as much as I can from over here, but strictly speaking I'm plain old Scottish, so may not have the correct culture perspective. What we need is to hear from our friends in America and Canada to get the full picture of the culture and heritage of those with strong Scottish roots. Slainte Mhath
Scottish African American
"Afro" is a prefix for African. If Black Americans feel they have more in common with Scottish culture then with West African cultures (saomething I wouldn't disagree with) then they should stop calling themselves "Afro" American. It is insulting to African people that they use a term intended to describe our continent, wear our hairstyles etc. yet have the audacity to disassociate themselves from us. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.233.245 (talk) 21:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
