Talk:Schisms among the Jews

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Contents 1 Missing 2 Chabad Anyone? 3 Split of Christian movements - where's the evidence! 4 npov 5 Original Research

[edit] Missing

What about the Esenians, Solomon Molcho, David Reubeni?

Does Zionism deserve mention?

[edit] Chabad Anyone?

I really think that there should be some mention of the messianic movement surrounding the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l.

I have recently read Sue Fishkoff's book, The Rebbe's Army, which I recommend. It is clear from her reporting that messianic Lubavitchters are a small dissident group within Chabad, not an important schism. Although, it's a bit strange to see the Rebbe's picture on a bus in Jerusalem. --Metzenberg 03:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Split of Christian movements - where's the evidence!

Here is what the text now says:

The most famous schism in Jewish history was the split between the followers of Jesus (who were known as Notzrim or Nazarenes) attributed to the Council of Jamnia, with the claim by his disciples that he was the long-awaited Jewish Messiah, and the majority Pharisees (Predecessors to Rabbinic Judaism) who rejected this claim.

There is a lot of 2nd century material in Mishneh concerning heretics, but it's not really clear that they were Christian, as opposed to Greek/Roman pagan, or members of other Jewish sects (and there were others). This so-called "schism" has been given an outsized importance that is not in accord with the actual historic record.

It is obvious that a lot of Jews did convert to Christianity, especially after Christianity became a Roman/Greek religion in the 4th-5th centuries. But there just isn't much documentary evidence for the existence of a large Jewish sect among the Pharisees that supported Jesus, that was part of the rabbinical/Pharisee movments, and that had a lot of interplay with Pharisees/rabbis.

The most famous schism in Jewish history? Show me the evidence. --Metzenberg 03:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

About 2000 years of history count for anything?

[edit] npov

The section is written from a mostly neo-chabad hasidic POV. Hasidim were opposed by traditionalists and rationalists outside of Vilna. Including Schneur Zalman's own father Baruch. Usage of the word baal shem tov is objectional. 203.214.137.16 15:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

It also assumes the historicity of the Bible. I've removed the claim it is based on archaeology--Doug Weller (talk) 15:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Original Research

This reads like someone's original research. On the other hand, it is identical to the text at http://www.hareidi.org/en/index.php/Schisms_among_the_Jews -- "This website contains resources for the Anglo-Hareidi community, as well as resources for those wishing to learn about or become part of that community. Hareidi or Chareidi Judaism is the most theologically conservative form of Orthodox Judaism." I can't tell offhand which is the original.--Doug Weller (talk) 15:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)