Talk:Save (baseball)

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I came here prompted by a comment at the Village Pump. I'm surprised that this isn't a disambiguation page. I'm trying to think of all the different definitions of Save

  • Save (baseball statistics)
  • Save (sports) - to save a goal, etc. (is the baseball definition a sub-definition of this?)
  • Save (computer file management) - to save a document
  • Save (spiritual) - as in "Jesus saves", Salvation? (not sure)
  • Save (rescue operation)
  • Save River, Zimbabwe
  • Saving (economics), to save money

Granted, each of these doesn't deserve an article on its own, but each would deserve a line in a disambiguation article pointing to file management, rescue operation, etc, or whatever the appropriate article is. -- Chuq 06:38, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Definately, the current content is far too specific for such a general term. As an aside, I would use Save (baseball) and Save (computing) instead of the two above, and Save (spiritual) might be better off pointing to Salvation. TPK 09:16, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Not being from the US I don't think of baseball when I think of the term "Save". I totally agree with changing this to a disambig page. I've updated your list from Save (economics) to Saving (economics). There's also "to prevent the loss of" such as to save ones eyesight. violet/riga (t) 09:21, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
For meanings of the verb save, perhaps we should add to Saving.--Patrick 12:58, 2004 Sep 18 (UTC)

For the Village Pump comment (and ensuing discussion) Chuq was talking about, see Talk:Computer file management. - dcljr 01:24, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm looking for an easy way to make a comment on the original article. Probably exists, easy as can be, but not obvious enough for me. It seems to me that a bit more history is in order, since the idea of what constitutes a save appears to have been modified over time, and bastardized in the process. Of course a pitcher who qualifies for a "vulture win" can't get a save; if he comes into the game with a lead, gives it up, and then his team's batters win anyway, the pitcher qualifies for the win, no?, which precludes him for the win without exception, correct? It seems to me that the real meaning of the save is that the pitcher comes in with the tying run at the plate and "saves" the winning pitcher's win. The whole "comes in with a lead of no more that 3 runs and preserves the win" seems totally fake and arbitrary. Has this always been part of the definition (I doubt it), or has the definition of the term changed over time? Forgive me if the answer is in the article.

Contents

[edit] Nice try ;)

Just made a little edit to the baseball bit. The original read -

Save leaders in Major League Baseball Bold denotes active players. Italics denotes best player.

Career Lee Smith - 478 John Franco - 424 Trevor Hoffman - 418 Dennis Eckersley - 390 Jeff Reardon - 367 Mariano Rivera - 361

- with Rivera's name italicised. Now don't get me wrong, he's good, but that's not very wikipedia, is it? :)

Also, I think the hockey and soccer sections could be spiced up a bit. Pictures of saves, anyone?

As a die-hard baseball fan, i know for a fact that one does not have to "pitch three 'effect' innings'" to earn a save. They don't have to pitch even one full inning to record a save. They have to only to pitch 1/3 of an inning. Infact the article even contridicts its own statement when it notes that modern day closers rarely pitch more than two innings. i plan on editing this article. If anyone has any problems with this, please tell UTforever22

I'm not sure about needing to pitch an entire inning, but as for the 3 innings, that is only if his team is up by more than 3 runs(or 4 or five with bases loaded). Say a closer comes in in the 7th inning, with his team up by 8 runs. If he finishes the game, and the other team does not tie it, he gets a save. A pitcher coming in in the same situation in the 8th or 9th would not get a save. Aericanwizard 20:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with wizard here. However, other than that instance, a pitcher who records a save only has to record the final out. He does not need to pitch one inning with a three run lead. The Cardinals' pitcher Wainright got a save in Game 2 of the NLCS vs. the Mets after he came into the game with a three run lead and nobody on base with one out in the ninth inning. He pitched two thirds of an inning and got the save.Politician818 00:03, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why Rivera?

Why is Rivera pictured when he's #4 all time? Doesn't make sense to have #1 all time as the person in the photo? #4 is important, but #1 all time is far much more important. --BadFishStan, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a Yankees fan, and I'm quite a knowledgeable baseball mind, but even I realize that more people have heard of Mariano Rivera than have heard of Trevor Hoffman. Though I do agree with your question. -- KirinX 14:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
It could just be an east coast vs west coast thing? The Yankees are the biggest market baseball team, highest payroll for several years, that could be why as well. Regardless of how well people know a player, #1 all time should be the featured photo. --BadFishStan
While I see your point of view, and it does make sense, it also makes sense to have the world's most known closer as the featured picture. It is a true debate, and one that calls for more consensus. -- KirinX 19:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I've just noticed... Wikipedia doesn't even have a picture of Hoffman, the point seems to be moot, for now at least. -- KirinX 19:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. I had added the image of Rivera simply because it was the best free-use image of a professional closer I could find on wikipedia. - Mattingly23 20:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, as a diehard Hoffman fan I was going to object (even though Rivera is great!) until I looked at the good alternatives with free photos and realized there weren't any. There is now a fair use picture of Hoffman on his article, but it's used specifically to show that at least one major magazine has called him the best closer ever (yeah of course I know it's debatable; it's what makes the cover newsworthy), so it can't be used as a general picture of him in other articles.
I'll also resist--and ask other Trevor fans to resist--making a separate 500-save club table whenever (this weekend?) he inaugurates that club. Speaking of which -- should we put an "as of X date" on the table and then try to only update it if we update all the stats? I'll admit that though I check that Mariano's stats are still right when I update Hoffman's, but I don't always check the rest. -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 03:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] larry

larry is awesome. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.166.104.206 (talk) 20:14, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The tying run

There should a seperate entry for "tying run". My fellow students (and I) are using it in papers/assignments quite often out of context - imlying hope, resurrection, surge or sometimes retaliation. However the meaning is out of grasp for non-baseball/international audience. Go RedSox !

[edit] Tom Gordon's entry in the Consecutive save list should be denoted as being across 2 seasons.

It struck me as odd that Gordon with 54 consecutive saves, not denoted as occurring in 2 or more seasons, would not be on the single season list. Checking with Baseball Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gordoto01.shtml), Tom had 46 saves in 1998 and 11 in 1999, the 2 years referenced in the consecutive saves list.

I'm left to conclude that his entry on this list should be marked with the double asteriks. I'm new to Wiki and this is my 1st comment so I was hesitant to make the change directly.

-lou 21:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

You're right! Thanks for fixing this. Welcome to Wikipedia! -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 23:40, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

I suggested that save opportunity be merged here; it's a short article whose content could easily be merged with this one and redirected. Chubbles 06:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)