Talk:Sarira

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[edit] Shameless Self-Promotion ^^

It's really difficult to upload a lot of pictures of wikipedia, so I made a separate site that contains a side by side comparison of Ringsels vs. Gallstones/kidneystones/bladder stones... if anyone's got a problem just delete the link :) Philosophy.dude 20:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About this article

One problem with this article is that it conflates "Ringsel" with Buddhist relics in general, which is what sarira and the equivalent Chinese and Japanese terms mean. (By the way, 舍利子 means "Sariputra", which is not at all the same as sarira). Another thing is that the article says very little about who believes in ringsel; the article mentions Tibetans and one Theravadin. Is this an idea that crops up in all strands of Buddhism?—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 04:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


i am pretty sure that 舍利子 does not refer to Sariputra, Sariputra is translated into chinese as 舍利弗,

i think technically 舍利 can refer to pretty much any buddhist relic, spoken words, sutras, statues, the pearl like thingy, mummified remains and bones, pieces of ash, all kind of things like that... even one's idea of buddha is not at all different from the buddha himself... hence your thought of the buddha is, in some sense a buddha's sarira.

for example quoting http://baike.baidu.com/view/897835.htm 法身舍利: 《 丁福保佛学大辞典 》术语）与法身偈同。又佛所说之经卷，谓之法身舍利。如来所说实相中道之理，不改不变，性相常尔，故云法身舍利。法华经法师品曰：‘经卷所住处，皆应起七宝塔，极令高广严饰，不须复安舍利，所以者何？此中已有如来全身，此塔应以一切华香璎珞缯幢幡伎乐歌颂供养恭敬尊重赞叹。’西域记九曰：‘印度之法，香末为泥，作小窣堵波，高五六寸，书写经文以置其中，谓之法舍利也。数渐盈精建大窣堵波，总聚于内常修供养。’ (basically: that which is unchanging within the speech of the buddha (in modern logical terms, the proposition), is of the same property as the essence of buddha himself, hence it is called the 法身舍利.... blah blah blah.... )

...but when used in common speech 舍利 is generally used as a synonymn to 舍利子, which generally refers to the supposedly supernatural pearl like substance... which is what most of the article is aimed at...

one problem probably comes from the fact that both the guy who started the article and myself are both native chinese speakers and hence our understanding of sarira starts with the chinese word "舍利"... which has probably acquired a somewhat different meaning from the original sanskrit word

in fact most native chinese speakers don't agree between themselves what exactly 舍利 can mean, for example in one of the forum posts, http://tw.netsh.com/eden/bbs/705389/html/table_5344074.html you can see someone posted a bunch of pictures of charred bones, saying that is 舍利子 (which is technically correct), but other folks flamed him for it... because in common conception 舍利子 refers to only the pretty, supposedly supernatural substance.

Philosophy.dude 20:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, apparently 舍利子 has two meanings. Here's my source: [1], although apparently it is short for 舍利弗子. I'm familiar with 舍利子 meaning Śariputra from the Heart Sutra. Two different senses of 子, I guess.—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 06:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
the link you cited is password protected :( but after some googling i am pretty sure you're right, still, that particular use of 舍利子 is about as obvious as when one use the English word "flag" out of context to refer the stuff you pave walkways with. 舍利子 is (almost) always interpreted as to mean Sarira. Philosophy.dude 23:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, the password and the username are "guest". I have no opinion about the relative frequencies of different meanings of 舍利子, so I'll take your word for it.—Nat Krause(Talk!·What have I done?) 03:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] should we add sarira (new age)?

seems that there are quite a few crank sites that refers to sarira in a New Agey, astral projection, what-you-see-when-you-smoke-too-much-DMT kind of way. Anyone thinks that should be included here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosophy.dude (talk • contribs) 23:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Ringsel, being the Tibetan name, I believe Chinese and Japanese both use a loanword from Indic Sarira. It's true that the entry conflates ringsel with the more general category of 'relic', but there are good historical reasons this did happen, and continues to happen, with the words shifting usages over the centuries.

Ringsels have been found in numerous excavations in Mahayana countries (Korea, Japan, China), often in sacral deposit boxes inside pagodas. So by no means should ringsels be relegated to any "New Age" category IMO.

I recommend reading Pearls from Bones: Relics, Chortens, Tertons and the Signs of Saintly Death in Tibet. Numen, vol. 41 (1994), pp. 273-324. This was written by yours truly.

Dan Martin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.226.37 (talk) 17:14, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Relics of Shakyamuni.jpg

Image:Relics of Shakyamuni.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I did this a while back.Sjschen (talk) 17:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Material Properties problems

The list included in the material properties section is poorly written and filled with unsourced information and personal opinions. Many of the numbered list items are actually subordinate points to the other items, making the reading of the list very confusing. I've tagged it both for citations and general clean up. Ig8887 (talk) 16:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a huge mess. Perhaps the way to fix this is to either thin it down to bare bones or just delete the whole thing and start from scratch. Sjschen (talk) 17:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)