Talk:Sarcasm
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[edit] Vocally Goblin?
You're kidding me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.235.89.73 (talk) 10:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Does anyone remember
When sarcasm itself was seen as an inherently funny concept, and used on sitcoms in the late 80s/early 90s in that capacity? Several Simpsons episodes have someone simply saying "I'm being sarcastic" and that's the entire joke.. similar to 'well duh.'
- Or that Kids in the Hall sketch where Dave Foley talks with a sarcastic drawl, sarcastically claiming that he has a 'speech impediment' which prevents him from talking in a 'normal way' leaving the viewer, and straight man Kevin Mcdonald, wondering if he's telling the truth or actually being sarcastic. While interesting to discuss, I can't see how this applies to the article. --Thaddius 18:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Double Sarcasm" or "sarcastic sarcasm"
I am surprised that this hasn't been better defined here. Perhaps we use it without noticing it. A good example of this would be: John is obviously working very, very hard, the obvious sarcasm would be "Hey John, stop slacking" Since this is too obvious a sarcasm to get any laughs or even be interesting, I might say instead "Hey John, Don't work too hard" with a heavy sarcastic tone as if I am using sarcasm to imply he is slacking, but since it is all too obvious that he isn't, this is a sarcasm used sarcastically. This of course only works if we understand the intent of the person using the double sarcasm, otherwise it just becomes confusing. Rules for double sarcasm: 1. Single sarcasm very obvious 2. Intent must be obvious —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hymie67 (talk • contribs) 07:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC).
- That's an excellent idea! << (double sarcasm?) Nimur 22:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sarcasm in other languages
I would be interested in seeing more information about sarcasm in other languages in this article if anyone has any info. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spunkymcpunk (talk • contribs) 05:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Dumbing down
I'm removing
This has been a recent development and is sign-posted as a dumbing down of literature by many within the British canon.
If anyone wants to unweasel-word it, fine.--Grimboy (talk) 01:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] This article could use some improvement
There are a bunch of problems with this article. I've corrected one I believe I should do without consultation: Sarcasm is mostly associated with the technique of substituting an intended meaning with the expression of its opposite; thus I've changed the introductory paragraph to better reflect this.
Secondly, if the article is titled 'Sarcasm,' I don't think the first section should also be titled that – it should present something distinctive.
Regarding the content of the second paragraph: I think that this is misrepresentative of most well-recognised literature. Certainly, web-speak and e-mail have presented a need to visually discern sarcasm, but skillful writers haven't traditionally required such a device and consequently the majority of sarcasm in well-known literature doesn't use italics and such because it doesn't need to. Shakespeare is definitely not a mere exception to the rule (as the article implies). Even though what I'm critical of in the article isn't sourced, I can't provide a source for my opinion so I won't edit it. But I reckon I'm right, so it would be good to look into that.
Anyway, surely there's more interesting things to say about sarcasm (in literary tradition) in addition to a couple of comments about its common employment in internet dialogue. The article as it is is a little bit trite by wikipedia standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Et Amiti Gel (talk • contribs) 02:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] This article is non neutral
The quote represents a reactionary argument against a claim something along of the lines "Sarcasm is the tool of the weak and pathetic".
If a person cannot confront an opposing argument or wishes to falsely accuse someone of something, sarcasm allows them to fake confrontation. The target of the sarcastic remark is not clear on what is being said because by it's very nature it makes little or no sense to someone that doesn't already agree with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.252.158.32 (talk) 03:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Am I Crazy?
I was heavily under the impression that sarcasm was simply a harsh, acidic comment meant to show disdain or give pain (if you're sarcastic towards a situation, it probably won't feel anything). However, the general concensus is that sarcasm is just saying the opposite of what is meant. I believe that is actually irony. While sarcasm is often associated with irony and satire, I contend that it is a very different concept and that this article is extremely misleading and probably furthers the misconceptions that many people have about the concept of sarcasm and its relationship with irony and humor.
I believe it must be derisive
I believe it does not have to be (though it can be) ironic, humorous, or satirical.
Example:
To look a girl straight in the eye and say, "That dress you're wearing is hideous," is a sarcastic comment. The opposite of the meaning would be that the dress is attractive, which is probably a positive thing, so it's safe to say that the comment is not ironic. In this example, sarcasm exists where irony does not. It's also not particularly humorous, but you could make an argument about that, I suppose.
I believe that this should be addressed. Perhaps a separate section explaining the relationship between irony and sarcasm or humor and sarcasm can be included, but it should be made clear that they are separate concepts.
I think that this should be looked into thoroughly.
-6/4/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.185.126.68 (talk) 00:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
- I attempted to address this some time ago (see archive), postulating about the 'degrees' of sarcasm, from playful to cutting, but no one (including me) seems to have the knowledge or inclination to add to the article in that kind of way. You'll also note a few users commenting on the quality of the article... --Thaddius (talk) 15:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, you're crazy (you did ask for it...) ;) From one of the citations: '[sarcasm is] a verbal form of irony'. Sarcasm has to be verbal (perhaps written, at a push); on the other hand, irony can be found in situations (for example). I recently read about an anti-gun activist who was stabbed to death. I found that pretty ironic, but it couldn't be sarcastic. Also, the example you gave isn't sarcasm, just an insult. Bridies (talk) 15:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
