Talk:Salicylic acid
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[edit] Vitamin "S" section
The "Vitamin S" section needs work. The one reference cited (European Journal of Nutrition) seems OK, but are there any corroborating references available? It isn't clear if this is given much credence in the mainstream scientific world or if it is borderline quackery. In any case, the section is too long, poorly written, and so loaded with weasel words it reads more like a plea to accept the author's opinion than a statement of fact. If the Vitamin S stuff is kept, most of it should be moved to vitamin which already has a brief Vitamin S section and only a short pointer to it left here. Currently it's over half the article. (Another problem in passing: salicylate is used several times throughout the entry without any prior definition.) --66.188.84.209 07:14, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the above post. Also, I believe the statement that salicylic acid could be argued as more important than vitamin A or D should be removed. The effects of vitamin A and D deficiency are well documented, and I don't believe I need to explain them here. There is no evidence of a salicylate deficiency related disorder.
[edit] Moved from article
I have moved the following section from the article here. Maybe somebody can write a critical/NPOV section for the article:
[edit] "Vitamin S"
"Vitamin S" is a proposed alternative name for salicylate, which would have the effect of classifying it as a vitamin. There is no generally agreed definition of what constitutes a vitamin, though salicylate meets at least one of the requirements:
- It is present in our natural diet in fruit and vegetables, particularly if they have had to defend themselves against damage or disease
- It is not produced by our bodies
- Trace amounts, it has been suggested, are required for the maintenance of life
This last point is controversial because salicylate deficiency, unlike, say, Vitamin C deficiency, which causes scurvy, does not result in any particular known symptoms. A low salicylate intake seems to be related to longer term problems, resulting in higher risks of age-related chronic diseases.
Whereas most vitamins are enzyme cofactors, promoting cellular biochemical reactions - Vitamin C boosts production of collagen - salicylate is not, but then nor is Vitamin E, which is an antioxidant, like salicylate.
Lack of salicylate appears to predispose humans to:
It can be argued that salicylate has a better claim to be called a vitamin than vitamins A and D.
Whether or not you choose to call aspirin a vitamin, there is still a case to be made that salicylate is an important micronutrient.
There is evidence that salicylates in past ages were much more common in human diets than they are now. Salicylates are produced by fruit as a defense mechanism: inducing damaged and diseased cells to commit suicide. Modern man's predilection for fruit and vegetables in a pristine condition - with shoppers often rejecting fruit with bumps of bruises - means that we eat less salicylates than in the past. A study has shown that organic vegetable soups contain nearly six times as much salicylate as non-organic equivalents (European Journal of Nutrition, vol. 40 p 289).
Comment: as far as I know going as far as calling salicylic acid a vitamin is complete nonsense and I haven't seen any reference to it as such in the literature.
Additionally, in reference to the paragraph quoting the E.J.N. article, the comparison between vegetable soups and human diet of "past ages" is almost a non sequitur since the history of crop selection is more complex than choosing over a bruised fruit; and while comparison between ancient and modern crops is a legitimate area of reserach, this article is not the place for that. My point is that the reference looks out of place and seems more like an attempt to legitimize a fringe theory that has little or no research to back it up. I'd support the removal of the dispute tag off this article. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 04:16, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] SMILES
I changed the SMILES from OC1=CC=CC=C1C(O)=O => C1=C(O)C=CC=C1C(O)=O The first indicated that C1 is carrying the -OH group, and that the C1 is also carrying the acid group; my modification put it onto C2, but I'm only 90% sure of the system. Someone doublecheck my thinking? --Firien § 28 June 2005 14:27 (UTC)
- Switched it back; I reckon the system's a little inconsistent in that the 1 above should be a (1), but something tells me the system will be too far along now to change ;) Case closed. --Firien § 30 June 2005 11:02 (UTC)
[edit] Plant hormone
Why is Salicylic acid (plant hormone) split off from this? Neither article is very long. Shouldn't they be merged? — Gwalla | Talk 8 July 2005 20:24 (UTC)
- They just have been. Physchim62 13:35, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Boiling point
I removed the following boiling point info from the table as it seems ludicrous to me. Maybe a typing error has got in there somewhere...
- 211°C at 2666 Pa (reduced pressure), sublimes at 76°C
I will see what I can find for more reliable data. Physchim62 13:35, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
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- My 1960 Merck Index says the same thing. Clearly the 76 number is wrong, or else (more likely) an even lower pressure should be listed and isn't. My rubber handbook (CRC) just gives the same 211 C at 20 torr figure, so I put that in. The MP is right, we use it in our intro organic lab! Walkerma 07:44, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Acne treatment
I am wondering if Salicylic acid for acne treatment is to be left on the skin indefinately or washed off. There are products with differing instructions. How long does Salicylic acid need to remain on the skin to be effective, and is there a risk of leavingit on too long? --Jeiki Rebirth 01:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
- It depends on the concentration of the acid used. Stronger concentrations(i.e. 5%) usually means that you need to wash them off after a period of time, and lower ones(i.e. 0.5%) are deisigned to be left on the skin.--Chicbicyclist 22:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Plant Hormone
The section about SA as a plant hormone needs to be rewritten. What means "cells capable of syntesizing"? Synthesizing what? Could also not find SA und the page "SA", isn't this the official abbreviation? At least I've seen it like that in plant papers. massa 14:18, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Bell foundries that cast bells in bronze - analloy of copper and tin stir the moulten bronze with a willow stick. The salicylic acid degasses the moulten metal which avoids pinholes in the finished article.
[edit] Antiseptic? Anti-biotic?
I think the line stating that SA is an 'anti-biotic' either needs to be reworded or referenced. I don't dispute the accuracy of the statement in principle, but I'm not sure if 'anti-biotic' is the best term to use. If it is, I think it should have a citation. The statement elsewhere that it is an antiseptic is similar, and there is also 'anti-microbal' (not in the article, but a similar term). It depends I guess on how it acts upon microbes (does it actually kill bacteria through dispersal in the bloodstream when ingested, or just on contact or when topically applied?), and also how specific the term 'antibiotic' is: even with the hyphen, can it be used for something that is not in the normal pharmacological range in current use? Volume1 09:04, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Effect of cooking on naturally occuring SA in food
The melting point of SA is easily achievable on a stovetop: does it simply melt and then solidify again as the food cools, or is it lost or altered due to sublimation or reaction with cookware, air, water, or other chemicals in food?
[edit] Salicylanilide
Can anyone start an article about this? Or you can just tell me what it is and what it does. I also have a question, I have a soap that has both sulfur + salicylic acid. What would be the probable ratio of the mixture? Thanks.202.138.180.33 04:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
- See http://www.alanwood.net/pesticides/salicylanilide.html for details.
- Ben 13:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ph and concentrations used in cosmetics
I got this information from Paula Begouns books, you can find it on the www.cosmeticscop.com site. I thought it was interesting as it relates to skin care but maybe needs more evaluation before its posted. I usually trust what she says because she evaluates products only based on medical journals that are legitmate and not funded by companies, or journals that just anyone can publish in (which is a bigger problem then you might think), and she usually states when the studies aren't big enough to draw conclusions. Although, she started selling her own line now which definitly hurts her credibility; her reputation before that was as a debunker of expensive and ineffective ingredients, based on pseudoscience or inconclusive evidence.
"BHA works best at concentrations of between 1 and 2%, and at an optimal ph of 3, diminishing in effectiveness as you go past a ph of 4" She goes on to give tips about use such as testing with ph paper before you buy. And that willow bark (which is often touted as the natural salicylic acid) actually contains salicin which can be converted into salicylic acid, but is by no means as direct as is often stated. She argues against higher concentrations for daily use but then lists some common peels that use higher concentrations (20-30% for the most high-powered peel) and says they can be more effective or better to start with then ahas peels of high concentrations because of their anti-inflammatory properties. She recommends bha for men's and women's grooming for the same properties, to reduce swelling and redness after shaving. She recommends a 5-10% solution for calluses on the feet and a 1.8% to 3% for psoriasis because it softens skin layers on psoriatic lesions.
I also read this, but can't find a direct reference, 1-2% daily, 2-8% irritaions may become more apparent, and at 8-13% may experience some bigger side effects. And I assume something as high as 20-30% is an only once in a blue moon, downtime treatment but I'm not sure.
Finally, I know that aspirin and salicylic acid are related and not necasarily the same but I thought this might be valid to mention in a cosmetics section, because its a cheap relatively afforadable option. I know from my own experience that using crushed up aspirin (uncoated) on the face is a common beauty treatment to get rid of blackheads, usually mixed with honey or a cream or just plain water. Given that you need a lower ph for salicylic acid, I personally use a little lemon juice ph2, diluted with water neutral 7. I don't know if that is the best method or even applicable for aspirin since they are slightly different, so I don't recommend it but I know that the honey or water and aspirin method is tested and true and you can probably look it up online somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.115.115 (talk) 18:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
