User talk:Saizai

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If you want to know about me, I'd recommend looking at my LiveJournal info. --Sai Emrys 15:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] A welcome from Kaleissin

Hi, Saizai, nice seeing you on wikipedia. There's lots of other places than just conlangs where you can contribute so dive in, be bold and remember that all must be verifiable.

Here's some useful links:

--Kaleissin 14:45:28, 2005-08-29 (UTC) (PS: voting on wikipedia:conlangs has started)

[edit] Constructed language

I'm writing regarding your addition to Constructed language, unfortunatly I had to remove it, as this is consider spam, and does not belong in an encyclopidic article. Your are free though to place this info at the Talk:Constructed language. Thanks. Eivindspeak! 04:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This American Life: Background Music

A tag has been placed on This American Life: Background Music, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. If you plan to add more material to the article, I advise you to do so immediately. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources which verify their content. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.--Fuhghettaboutit 13:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About Phone evangelism...

I've been trying to improve the Approaches to evangelism article for awhile now, and I was wondering, you wouldn't happen to know of any other sources besides the WOTM radio broadcasts for phone fishing? It's just that as it stands, I don't think the WOTM radio broadcasts are notable enough on their own to exibit this approach to evangelism, and i'll have to go look for more stuff on my own later if you don't perhaps know of anything. Homestarmy 15:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't know of any others, but WOTM is pretty notable IMO. I'm an agnostic and I'm familiar with what they do. O.o Perhaps it should be bundled into some more general 'fishing' subheading? --Sai Emrys 04:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, until I did a google search on the topic, I didn't know very much about it, but this particular kind of evangelism seems to just have to do with phones and phone-like communication devices. However, it does seem to be much more widely practiced that I thought before... Homestarmy 23:54, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of Language Creation Conference

I've nominated Language Creation Conference, an article you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that Language Creation Conference satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Language Creation Conference and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Language Creation Conference during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. --Miskwito 04:44, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding edits to Autocoitus

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, Saizai! However, your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but note that the link you added, matching rule pornotube\.com, is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia's external links policy for more information. If the link was to an image, please read Wikipedia's image tutorial on how to use a more appropriate method to insert the image into an article. If your link was intended to promote a site you own, are affiliated with, or will make money from inclusion in Wikipedia, please note that inserting spam into Wikipedia is against policy. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! Shadowbot 19:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Autocoitus, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate, such as articles for deletion. If you can indicate how Autocoitus is different from the previously posted material, or if you can indicate why this article should not be deleted, I advise you to place the template {{hangon}} underneath the other template on the article, and also put a note on Talk:Autocoitus saying why this article should stay. An admin should check for such edits before deleting the article. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Please read our criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 4 under General criteria. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. We welcome your help in trying to improve Wikipedia, and we request you to follow these instructions. Resurgent insurgent 06:26, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment. I've tried my usual sources and not found this. I will try some older ones eventually, and I'll let you know if I find anything. What is needed is a good index to printed pornography. (smile)DGG 20:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Deaf

I saw you know American Sign Language. Please take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deaf. If you are interested, then you may also add {{User WikiProject Deaf}}, which also adds a userbox to your page, or [[Category:WikiProject Deaf participants]] to your userpage. If you do, it will list you in Category:WikiProject Deaf participants. Thank you. Taric25 16:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Constructed Languages tagging

I find it problematic that you are tagging a number of general linguistic articles with the wikiproject constructed languages banner - firstly wpcl is a daughter project of Wikiproject Languages, secondly the articles only have marginal relevance for the wpcl whereas they are fully relevant for inclusion in WPLanguages. It seems to me that since any aspect of language has some kind of relevance for constructed languages all language related articles will end up tagged with both the wpcl tag and the wpl tag - this is inefficient. There must be a better way to do it. A constructed languages parameter could be included in the wp-languageges banner which could simply be added as yes or no. Or better yet you could just include all articles tagged for wikiproject languages and WPlinguistics in the wpcl category without tagging for it specifically. It seems overkill to tag every linguistics related article several times for wikiproject languages, wikiproject linguistics and wikiproject constructed languages. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 22:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd agree with you wrt the general linguistics articles - please feel free to implement any of your suggested modifications. But I would say that conlang specific articles (e.g. ones on conlangs, conlang typology, conlangers, etc) should get the specific tag. Does that work? Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 22:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Another option - use this style format:
{{WikiProjectBannerShell |1=
{{HistSci|class=B|importance=High|nested=yes}}
{{WP conlangs|class=|importance=|nested=yes}}
}}
Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 23:17, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Conlang specific articles should have the tag of course. If you can convince the members of project languages to add such a nested option you could do that as well.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 07:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
It seems that you were only complaining that it would over-bulk the discussion page header. I just checked - the only (I think?) general-linguistics pages I modified were those on basic typologies. And they're not tagged as WP:Lang. So, basically, I don't understand the reason for your objection. Please reexplain / rephrase? Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 07:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you tagging Polysynthetic languages, Whistled languages and Agglutinative languages which I don't think fall under Project Constructed languages first and foremost - but rather under WP languages or WP linguistics. It is true that they are not currently carrying banners from these wp's but it seems to me to be weird to include them in wpcl instead of one of these two other projects since they have much more relevenace to either of them than to wpcl AND since wpcl is a daughter project of wpl.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Then don't have it *instead*, have it *in addition*. :) I agree that WP:Lang is more relevant, but your argument is basically that it's tagged WP:CL and not WP:Lang therefore WP:CL seems pragmatically more relevant... the solution is to tag it with WP:Lang too. Why double-tag? a) WP:CL and WP:Lang have different editors. b) They also have different priorities. This seems like both a simpler and more compatible solution, that still addresses your underlying concern. If you agree, please tag 'em WP:Lang; if not, please explain. Thanks! Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 10:18, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
My main concern is the general overusage of WP banners by all kinds of small wp's. Some article - not those tagged by you at the moment are tagged by up to six different projects. This is annoying when trying to acces a talk page. My concern is to minimize the number of wp:banner taggings per page. this can be done by only tagging for the higher level projects or by nesting banners and having yes/no options whenever it is a possibility. It can also be done by some projects simply not using banners but by using a category instead which is less intrusive on the talk page (that is what we do in WP:ENLANG). if you don't share my concern about preventing overcluttering of talk pages then that is fine. I was only asking you to consider other possibilities.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:33, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I can understand the annoyance. What I do when I find a talk page that has more than one other project tag (sometimes even so) is to use the WikiProjectBannerShell. It's about the same size as a project tag, and fits all of 'em. I think it's a fairly reasonable compromise between unclutteredness and tagging. Basically, I believe that tags should be added where applicable, and that display-cruft is a separate matter - of *display* - that should be dealt with using collapsing forms, wrappers, smaller text, and the like. As it doesn't seem that you have any problem with the tagging per se so much as the clutter induced by a bunch of project boxes, I *think* this addresses the issue at hand. I'd suggest the same for WP:ENLANG. Hopefully I am understanding you correctly & directly addressing your concern? Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 10:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
using the nested option is good. Our reasoning in Wp:Enlang however is that we don't really need a banner. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 12:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Who knows, maybe it'll help raise awareness? I hope that you guys at least have some sort of article-page template to flag endangered languages...? Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 12:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Damin

Hi Saizai,

Just to let you know, Damin is not an international conlang, as you'd tagged it, and the Lardil would insist it's not a conlang at all, though linguists suspect it is (conlang, that is, not international). kwami 05:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I was going from Portal:Constructed languages - see the sidebar list of IALs. I am not familiar with Damin myself, so can't offer any opinion on its categorization. I'd suggest simply that you raise this issue on the Portal talk page and recategorize it as you feel is appropriate; just try to make sure that it's consistently categorized across the portal, WP:CL categories, lists of conlangs, and conlang-typology pages. Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 07:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi Saizai.

Just saying hi. --Qang (talk) 02:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm sorry for troubling you

I want to apologize for undoing your hard work. When I first started the Esperanto task force (ETF) a few weeks ago, I noticed that the infobox for WikiProject Constructed languages displayed only "class" and not "importance." Although I included the "importance" element when I did the majority of my tagging of Esperanto-related articles, I became suspicious that it was the reason the ETF tag was functioning improperly. In the last few days, as I have been trying to resolve the problem (which, specifically, is that articles tagged with the ETF tag are not automatically filed in the categories that I have created for the task force), I removed the "importance" element of about five articles to see if that was the problem (it didn't seem to be). In response to your message, I have reverted all of the changes that I made. I apologize again for inconveniencing you. However, maybe you can help me with the problem I have been trying to resolve. I believe that it is being caused by bad coding in Template:WP conlangs. If you know how to make the ETF tag automatically categorize the already-tagged articles into the proper category (Category:Esperanto task force articles), your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and patience. I hope that continued communication will enhance both of our projects. Again, I'm very sorry for getting in your way. Please forgive me. TFCforever (talk) 22:55, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

*laugh* No need to be quite so contrite; we're working together here.
I'll take a look at the ETF tag and see if I can fix it, though I have to confess that WP template coding is not one of my strengths (else I wouldn't have messed up {{WP conlangs sandbox}} in trying to add importance handling). FWIW, you can add whatever extra variables you want to a template; if they're not used, nothing will happen. At present, importance isn't used, so nothing that depends on it will happen. It doesn't hurt though, just sits there unused.
I've tried getting some help from WP:Template requests but without success. Perhaps you could try finding someone who's coded a template that has similar features - e.g. the one for WP Sexuality - and see if they can help us out?
Thanks, Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 01:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Y Done :) Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 01:42, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you so much!

Thank you so much for all your help on the Conlangs template! I had been trying to figure out the problem for a couple of weeks, and I really wasn't sure what to do. Without your help, I may never have solved it. I just can't explain how much you helped me on this problem! Thank you so much! TFCforever (talk) 04:30, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, thank you. I tried doing this earlier and failed. The way I solved it this time was by working off of the code that you added - which let me figure out how the template code works and thus how I could add the Importance variable by hand, rather than the kludgy splicing I'd tried earlier. In any case, whee it's done.
If you're interested, WP:CL could use help - see its todo list. For starters, many of the articles linked from P:CL - and other articles, categories, etc that ought to be within our domain - are still not tagged with both {{[[Template:conlang#REDIRECT [[]]|conlang#REDIRECT [[]]]]}}, {{Infobox language}} (where relevant), and {{WP conlangs}}, and thus likely to get missed by the project. Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 04:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Wikipedia:WikiProject Constructed languages/Userbox

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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 00:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Out-of-control deletion

Hi, Saizai.

Is there anything that can be done about the activities of over-acting deletors? Amir E. Aharoni seems to be on a crusade - Britheneg, for example, is one of the best conlangs ever invented - a wonderfully sophisticated conception of what a British romance language might look like. Regarding Slovio (also highly respected in the auxlang community), he seems to be trying to get it off every other language's wikis! Schaeffer seems to be his lapdog - even though his speciality is articles on "professional" wrestling!

I would also mention Kotava, which is a respected conlang in France, which was eliminated by others. It is one of the few conlangs to get an ISO tag.

The fight to save Lingua Franca Nova's mention in wikipedia really upset me. To have years of work denigrated by a couple of young punks who just don't like other people's interests is pretty disheartening. Very much against what I thought wikipedia was all about.

The other day, in a moment of boredom, I looked up who was born on my birthday. Once you get into the 20th century, it's mostly minor sports figures and - wait for it - porn stars. Thank God for Martin Luther King Jr! And the conlangers are the ones attacked? Come on. Cgboeree (talk) 13:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree that it's a problem. I don't know re Schaeffer (and would say that describing anyone as a lapdog or criticizing their other interests is rarely helpful). Keeping Wikipedia:WikiProject Constructed languages/Edit wars and deletions updated will help some. My own opinions are at Wikipedia:Conlangs/Sai's_two_cents.
I suggest you take a look at / participate in the couple discussions I've started on CONLANG-L (e.g. this); there are relatively few ways to address this. Let me know what you think of what I proposed there. May also help to start similar discussions elsewhere; don't know what fora you frequent.
Hope that helps, and that we can beat this one way or another. Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 00:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] about the Artificial intelligence -> stupidity, ignorance, and laziness

Hy there. Can you tell me few things because I cant understand exactly what you mean.

How those methods of solving problems are limitations to AI. You are trying to say that humans cant implement in AI those methods and are specific only to humans? Raffethefirst (talk) 14:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

They are not "limitations" exactly (that was poor phrasing on my part), so much as complications that make it harder to solve a problem. I don't know where you got the idea of this being different for humans vs AI; humans have the same issues in problem solving (dealing with lack of knowledge, time, or ability to do something). Look up "intelligent agents" and "uncertainty" in any AI textbook for a version of the same, if not in those words. Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 01:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR

3RR is about using common sense and discussion. It is not about bureaucracy.

And if you do want to use it as a bureaucratic rule, then you are wrong, too, as it says "three reverts within a 24-hour period", which is clearly not the case, but it is really not important. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 22:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Pot, kettle, black? Sai Emrys ¿? ✍ 04:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
3RR is needed to promote stability, discussion and consensus and to prevent bloody revert wars. By its nature it is very technical and arbitrary. That's why i say that it's not important: at the end of the day content guidelines, even though they are called "guidelines" and not "policies" are more important than arbitrary rules, which are, indeed, good for administrators who act as cops - a thing which i do my best to avoid.
I saw what you wrote on the CONLANG-L mailing list. It actually makes a lot of sense. I acknowledge that there is a discrepancy between Wikipedia's guidelines about notability and verifiability, which try -very roughly- to follow established academic traditions which strive to cite peer-reviewed printed journals or at least popular newspapers and the nature of the publications in the conlanging community, which mostly live on personal websites and open mailing lists.
You propose three ways to deal with this - a. leave Wikipedia entirely, b. change Wikipedia's rules, c. make the publications of the conlanging community more notable. All three have some validity. Let me concentrate on b.: Changing Wikipedia's rules is not impossible! In fact, they change all the time!
Rewriting Wikipedia:Conlangs and promoting it to an unofficial guideline will be good progress. Bringing WP:N and WP:V and WP:NOR closer to your vision of Wikipedia will be even better, but harder, but if you want progress there, you'll have to reach consensus on their respective talk pages and maybe the village pump. It won't be easy - there are much stricter deletionists than myself (and i don't even call myself a deletionist in the first place.) Yet you should try it, but remember that starting by saying that notability is bullshit won't get you far. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)