Template talk:S-line

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Contents

[edit] Documentation?

So how do we use this template? I've tried converting the explicit code in San Bernardino (Amtrak station) to correctly show the Metrolink successions, but haven't been entirely successful yet. Slambo (Speak) 21:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Regrettably documentation is largely stuck in my head at the moment and on assorted talk pages. I've been working on unified documentation but it isn't finished. In the meantime, I'd be happy to answer questions. Mackensen (talk) 21:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I've taken a further stab at explaining this beast. Mackensen (talk) 03:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Way cool. Thanks for the doc. Slambo (Speak) 11:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I've added documentation for the one-way functionality I added a bit ago, as well as some other optional parameters I found useful when doing the CTA succession boxes. Which, now that my work has calmed down a bit, I really need to get back to converting. -- Loco830/Espio (Rant) 06:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DLR

The Doklands Light Railway is not actually part of the London Underground but there are many thins integrated and i suppose, reluctantly, it is for the ease of the traveller.

[edit] Circle Line

For the London Underground Circle Line you're using toward Inner Circle, which makes no sense. At the signs at stations the destination is shown as "via Liverpool Street" (or whatever well-known station is about a third of the way round in the direction of the train). Could the template (and the stations) be updated to use the same scheme? --88.109.224.119 12:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes they could, but we'd need to work out a scheme beforehand. Mackensen (talk) 15:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Dividing the circle into 4 sections, something like this should work:

  • Aldgate to Temple - toward Victoria / toward Liverpool Street
  • Embankment to Bayswater - toward Paddington / toward Tower Hill
  • Notting Hill Gate to Baker Street - toward Liverpool Street / toward High Street Kensington
  • Great Portland Street to Aldgate - toward Tower Hill / toward Baker Street

I think the platform indicators actually use more overalapping sections than this, which would be quite complex to emulate. MRSC • Talk 20:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, let's break down how the Circle Line interacts with the rest of the system. The clock-wise trains are on the right-hand side from High Street Kensington to Aldgate, then left-hand from Tower Hill to Gloucester Road. It might make sense to designate the four "sections" geographically: SW, NW, NE, SE. We could go even further and define NC (North Central) and SC (South Central). Mackensen (talk) 22:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Direction Location Temini
NW High Street Kensington to Edgware Road Victoria / King's Cross St. Pancras
NC Baker Street to King's Cross St. Pancras High Street Kensington / Liverpool Street
NE Farringdon to Aldgate Paddington / Tower Hill
SE Tower Hill to Blackfriars King's Cross St. Pancras / Victoria
SC Temple to Westminster Liverpool Street / High Street Kensington
SW St. James's Park to Gloucester Road Tower Hill / Paddington

Now, both type and type2 should be set to the section of the line that the station is located in. Everything else will show up automatically.Mackensen (talk) 22:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

These boundaries can be modified very easily, by the way. Mackensen (talk) 22:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LUL District line termini

The termini need to be updated as they currently point to redirects.

Thanks. MRSC • Talk 20:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, Wimbledon tube station is a link from the box used at Earl's Court tube station. This points to a dab page. It is not transparent how to update these. MRSC • Talk 18:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
This is done at the "stations" template, in this case Template:LUL stations. The following line takes care of the problem:
Wimbledon=[[Wimbledon station|Wimbledon]]
Mackensen (talk) 18:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Much obliged. MRSC • Talk 19:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Eastern

Right i fancy having a go at implementing some of this across "my patch". I'm confused about what data i have to put in where. I understand the conversion of rail line to s-rail, etc. ie do i put in a list of stations, a list of lines by the TOC, etc? Pickle 20:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, it depends on several factors. Some TOCs already have their data backend defined; some don't. The first thing you have to establish is the "system name" each TOC will use within the s-rail/s-line system. In the states this is often, but not always, the AAR reporting mark. In the United Kingdom, the full name of the TOC (e.g. c2c, First ScotRail) is used instead. Each TOC then needs its own sub-templates, as defined above:
  1. Line
  2. Station
  3. Color

Now, the question of "line" may vary according to your local rail culture. "Line" in this sense really means service, as services may run over one or more historic "lines" and said "lines" are no longer owned by the original company. With Amtrak, for example, there's a separate definition for each named train. Each line/service will need its own termini definition. A common rule of the road is that west is on the left, east on the right, and everything above all should be consistent. I'd be happy to field questions about individual TOCs, but those are the basics. Best, Mackensen (talk) 21:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply (I'll get on with this next week hopefully)
I appreciate the distinction between line and services you are making.
So i would need a list of "lines/services", a list of stations and a colour for the TOC. The last two are relatively easy, the first will be challenging as not all have the "mapped out" for want of a better phrase.
A supplementary question would be how do i handle closed/truncated "lines/services" eg Dover Priory railway station, Strood railway station, etc
Pickle 16:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, a couple options for disused lines. One, you can just ignore them altogether. S-rail/s-line and rail line can co-exist peaceably within the same table. Another is to simply define them as you would any other system. A third option is to not show disused systems altogether (which is what has happened in the states). Mackensen (talk) 17:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
OK I've tested it on a much smaller TOC, the VSOE, which only has two stations London Victoria station and Folkestone Harbour railway station. I followed the documentation above (is Amtrack the best example) and looked at C2C as well. If I've done it right I've made the following 5 templates;
  • Template:S-line/VSOE right/VSOE
  • Template:S-line/VSOE left/VSOE
  • Template:VSOE color
  • Template:VSOE lines
  • Template:VSOE stations
it was confusing because the example don't show a simple one line one TOC system and left me confused (as Amtrack and LUL are examples of complexity).
If all thats is right, the bit that has so far confused me is adding more lines/services, i take it i add more lines/services to the "Template:TOC lines" and then create "Template:S-line/TOC right/line" and "Template:S-line/TOC left/line" (as the colour doesn't change).
The "Template:TOC stations" to solve redirect problems eg [[London Victoria railway station]] instead of [[London Victoria station]] wasn't immediately apparent
thanks for your patients! Pickle 14:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's the way to do a one-line system. You've also got it right for adding more lines/services. Looks great! Mackensen (talk) 14:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I've made one minor change [1]. It's common practice in the UK articles for intermodal stations to be named X station instead of X railway station. If you generalize the template, you can simply list stations that meet the exception. Mackensen (talk) 14:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

ahh thanks, i've done the Gatwick Express as well and that was much quicker now i know what i'm doing! The next step is to try a bigger system. Pickle 16:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
having a look at Gatwick Airport railway station, and i had a go at the Virgin routes through the station but it doesn't want to work (properly), a deeper examination showed that the Virgin cross country stuff is very complex!!! What am i doing wrong? Pickle 16:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Virgin Cross-Country was beyond vexing during development. You'll need to examine Template:S-line/Virgin Trains right/VT2 (which holds the definitions for both directions) to see what directions you need. You'll then need to plug those into type and type2. Mackensen (talk) 18:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, very complex ;) Pickle 18:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm currently almost finished with S-line programming for Southeastern. Virgin and Silverlink are finished (by other users). Geoking66talk 16:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Heavens, has the consensus at UK railways changed? Mackensen (talk) 16:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Err no. I'm sitting back waiting for the mushroom could to go up from a certain user.... Personally i like s-rail (see my work in new Zealand) but i don't like it cramped up in the station Infobox. I've warned Geoking66 about the prior lack of consensus on s-rail / keeping of "rail line", and Geoking66 "boldly" added to code to {{Infobox UK station}} to allow s-rail to be show, but without establishing a consensus first. again i fear i vast edit war... Pickle 17:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
BTW there has been some great cat sorting (see Category:Silverlink templates) that i've recnetly worked on. Mackensen can you have a look at {{S-line/Silverlink right/London to Northampton}} with {{S-line/Silverlink right/Northampton}} and {{S-line/Silverlink left/London to Northampton}} with {{S-line/Silverlink left/Northampton}}. Pickle 17:46, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The station option was added for the WMATA and PATH folks, but it's definitely not suitable in all cases. Where at all possible s-line/s-rail should mimic the previous setup; adding information unobtrusively. I'd suggest moving that stuff out into the article to avoid unnecessary aggravation. Note that {{s-rail-start}} takes the noclear=yes parameter which stops the page-clearing line break. Mackensen (talk) 18:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Free transfer" parameter

I think that a "free transfer" parameter should be added in addition to a "transfer" parameter to distinguish where free transfers exist, as opposed to transfers where one must pay an additional fare. If anyone else agrees, I'll add an {{editprotected}} template to this page and add one. –Crashintome4196 23:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

  • I wonder if such a level of complexity is really necessary...Mackensen (talk) 00:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Towards

Can a parameter be added for users to choose between "towards" and "toward"? It can be linked with system or line. Qaka 15:19, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

  • I'd be hesitant to do so absent a real grammatical problem with one or the other. Mackensen (talk) 15:53, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
It looks perculiar when it appears on an article about a London tube station or an MTR station. Qaka 19:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, if it's a difference between American English and British English, it might be possible to re-write this template (and related templates) to reflect that difference. The trick is doing it the right way. Mackensen (talk) 20:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. The default is "toward." If you want "towards," create or modify the {{{SYSTEM}}} style template (e.g. Template:Amtrak style) and add this line: lang=GB. Mackensen (talk) 20:36, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Qaka 15:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] historic lines and closed stations

See also: Ongar tube station, North Weald tube station, Blake Hall tube station, and Epping tube station

I've had a play with the defunct Epping to Ongar shuttle (on London Underground's Central Line), using "s-rail" rather than the traditional "rail line". Two issues spring to mind a) how does one get the "disused rail insert" bit to look right (use s-note ?) and b) how should an intermediate station like Blake Hall (that closed before the rest of the line) be handled (see North Weald and Epping). It also does look a bit funny when the heritage rail bit comes in as well (it doesn't look aligned right). No real panic, I'm just playing. Pickle 09:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

  • I think I grappled with that a couple months back as well, with the same issues. S-note would be one possibility, but it would be nice to have a standard template. Let me think on it. Mackensen (talk) 10:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why full protected

Does anyone know why this template is fully protected? NHRHS2010 Talk 02:34, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes. It's high use and affects the presentation of thousands of articles across different wikiprojects. Mackensen (talk) 07:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Thanks. This probably means that many established users that are vandals are likely to destroy it. NHRHS2010 Talk 10:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Nice sarcasm... and yet you never got a response.... is there evidence that this template leads to vandalism by established users? ~ PaulC/T+ 09:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I didn't think he wanted a response, frankly. Given that it's been fully protected since it became high-use, no, there's no history of vandalism. Mackensen (talk) 12:28, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What are all the options in s-line?

I've been looking at the source code and there seems to be some stuff in there that has not been fully explained in the talk page, and how to use them. New users of this template could potentially miss out some of the functions of this template, and might even suggest new ones.

Examples are "branch" and "transfer". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandstorm6299 (talk • contribs) 12:48, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Linkable branch parameter

I think that the branch parameter underneath the system line should be able to be linked, just like all the parameters in the box. For example, each branch of the Green Line (MBTA) has its own article—Green Line "B" Branch, Green Line "C" Branch, etc. I have no idea how to go about this, but hopefully there is a way by changing the protected code somehow. –Dream out loud (talk) 05:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

  • The trick is that sometimes branch is used to convey supplemental information, instead of further modifying route information. Now, it might be possible to modify the template so that branch auto-linking is opt-in. Mackensen (talk) 10:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Okay, here's Arlington re-worked with the new idea:
Preceding station   MBTA   Following station
Green Line
toward Riverside
 Green Line
Green Line
Green Line
toward Lechmere
  • Basically, {{{branch}}}, {{{system}}}, and {{{line}}} are all passed to a new template: [[Template:{{{SYSTEM}}} lines/branches]] (Template:MBTA lines/branches). If that template doesn't exist, the branch is displayed normally. Otherwise, you've a full range of linking options. This is in the development version of the template; I can merge it into the main template any time. Mackensen (talk) 12:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Ok, I definitely like that and it seems easy enough to implement. Do you think you can merge it into the main template? –Dream out loud (talk) 17:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
      • Merged. The MBTA pages are probably all updated automagically. Mackensen (talk) 17:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Mbta-logo.svg

Image:Mbta-logo.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 00:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To-edit or not to edit

How do i make changes to these templates without disaster? Simply south 14:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Very carefully ;) (replied on my talk page as well). Mackensen (talk) 14:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Mbta-logo.svg

Image:Mbta-logo.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] rowsline & hideline parameter

Currently there is a s-line-jnct template, which has the effect of spanning lines into 2 rows, example is Westferry DLR station. I feel that it would be better to merge it into this template with the above 2 parameters, and it can be dealt with the same way as the current parameters rows1 & rows2 and hide1 & hide2. Furthermore, merging into this template would give the flexibility of spanning it to more than just 2 rows, as the current template does. Anyone with me on this?  - oahiyeel talk 07:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The current parameters rows1, rows2, hide1 and hide2 seem to work fine. Is there any advantages of using s-line-jnct over the current method? 리지강.wa.au (의논하다|기여) 16:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Not really. I don't quite remember why I created it in the first place. The only difference is that it spans the central cell (with the line information), which can be useful but not essential. S-line-jnct also predates the development of "branching," which helped eliminate the need. I would not be adverse to deprecating its usage. Mackensen (talk) 16:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I feel that the the spanning of the central cell is still useful and would not deprecate the usage of branching. Some rail lines do not have an "official" branch name, for example splitting of the line into the same loop in different direction. This difference in direction thus would be indicated by the "type" parameter. In this case, it would be useful to span the central cell. In the normal cases where the lines have specific branch names, the branch method should still be used.  - oahiyeel talk 18:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I see what you're getting at now. I'll put the two methods here for clarity.

This uses s-line-jnct:

Bukit Panjang

Preceding station   Light Rapid Transit   Following station
Bukit Panjang LRT Line
towards Choa Chu Kang via Fajar
towards Choa Chu Kang via Fajar
Terminus Bukit Panjang LRT Line
Ten Mile Junction shuttle
Terminus

This uses rows1, rows2, hide1 and hide2:

Bukit Panjang

Preceding station   Light Rapid Transit   Following station
Bukit Panjang LRT Line
towards Choa Chu Kang via Fajar
towards Choa Chu Kang via Fajar
Terminus Bukit Panjang LRT Line
Ten Mile Junction shuttle
Terminus

s-line-jnct does deserve more mention in the discussion portion. I don't exactly know how to decipher the code, so I can't help there. 리지강.wa.au (의논하다|기여) 19:12, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes that's exactly what i mean. I don't think it's necessary to decipher the s-line-jnct code. Basically, it should take the same method as rows1 etc. where the parameter after the = sign indicates the number of rows to span.  - oahiyeel talk 19:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
S-line-jnct does, but it produces odd results sometimes. What might make sense is simply allowing central spanning within s-line. Let me play with that in my userspace. Mackensen (talk) 20:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Any progress? :)  - oahiyeel talk 08:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
As a matter of fact, yes ;) I've merged the new code and updated your second example above. S-line-jnct is now redundant and should probably be orphaned. Mackensen (talk) 15:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logos

How do logos such as the tube roundel get put before the name in the s-rail title box? Geoking66talk 02:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new S-rail-next template

i've created a new template s-rail-next that takes in the same parameters as s-rail, but without the "preceding/following station" column title. Main use is for multiple lines in succession box. the london overground title uses this in the following example:

Preceding station   London Underground   Following station
Terminus
 Bakerloo line
London Overground
Watford DC Line
towards Euston

 - oahiyeel talk 07:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] rows2 doesn't work if previous parameter is absent together with spanning rows1 and rowsmid

Example with previous parameter present:

Preceding station   KCR   Following station
towards Ferry Pier
 614P Terminus
towards Siu Hong
towards Ferry Pier
 610

Replacing the preceding station "Fung Tei" with blank produces the following result:

Preceding station   KCR   Following station
Terminus 614P Terminus
towards Siu Hong
towards Ferry Pier
 610

It doesn't seem to be affected when middle row or row1 is not spanned:

Preceding station   KCR   Following station
Terminus 614P Terminus
614P
towards Siu Hong
towards Ferry Pier
 610
Preceding station   KCR   Following station
Terminus 614P Terminus
Terminus
towards Siu Hong
towards Ferry Pier
 610

Coding bug somewhere? :)  - oahiyeel talk 21:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

  • I think I saw this before with s-jnct, and tried to reproduce it in standard html, only to have the same problem. That is, if memory serves, this is a standard html rendering issue. Can you create the "correct" table using html or wikitax? Mackensen (talk) 16:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, i understand what u mean now, I think it's a rendering issue. Probably because every row is spanned, rendering the "extra" row in between useless. The only way to make it render with the desired effect is for at least one of the rows to have more than 1 line of text, or creating an "invisible column" that would not be spanned.

Using 2 lines of text (&nbsp;<br>&nbsp; in col2):

Terminus  
 		 614P   Terminus
Lam Tei
Tuen Mun Hospital 610

By hiding the border of col 4:

Terminus   614P   Terminus
  Lam Tei
Tuen Mun Hospital 610

 - oahiyeel talk 17:41, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I just saw this at Help:Table:

Note that using rowspan="2" for cell G combined with rowspan="3" for cell F to get another row below G and F won't work, because all (implicit) cells would be empty. Likewise complete columns are not displayed if all their cells are empty. Borders between non-empty and empty cells might be also not displayed (depending on the browser), use &nbsp; to fill an empty cell with dummy content.

So seems like the "bug" is by design. - oahiyeel talk 17:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] state1,state2

what does this 2 parameters do? i've tried experimenting them but could not tell their functions. - oahiyeel talk 09:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Nothing by default. They're passed to the station templates, mainly for purposes of disambiguation. However, the system station templates have to be told to look for them, and to do something with them. I implemented this is response to the new developer-imposed limit on {{#ifexist}} calls, because {{GSR stations}} was breaking on some articles. Mackensen (talk) 11:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:NS logo.jpg

Image:NS logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template:LIRR lines/branches

I can't figure out why this non existent template is called when using this template. It shows up on line 80 articles... Is this a bug with the template? Are there other examples of this? Should something be present at this location? ~ PaulC/T+ 09:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • It's not a bug (not within the template, anyway); it's an unused feature. When ifexist checks for its existence it winds up getting transcluded even though it doesn't exist. Chalk that one up to the oddities of mediawiki I suppose. If it's bothering you, there's a generic placeholder that could go there. Mackensen (talk) 12:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Documentation

{{editprotect}} I've created the subpage Template:S-line/doc so that the it can be included on the main page instead of the talk space. Could someone edit the page and put in {{documentation}}? Thanks :)  - oahiyeel talk 04:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Y Done Thanks, PeterSymonds (talk) 06:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)