Talk:S-Bahn

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18:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)DHimmelspach=="Similar" systems== I am tempted to delete the section titled "Similar systems in other countries" in its entirety. This obviously would be a major change and I don't do it lightly. However, I feel a strong case can be made for such a deletion.

1. Relevancy: This article is about a specific class of passenger trains in German-speaking countries. Discussion of other rail networks in other parts of the world digresses from the main focus of the article. Furthermore, the length of this list threatens to overwhelm the main body of the article.
2. Redundancy: The main body of the article already specifically mentions a few systems as being similar to the S-Bahnen. These include the RER in Paris and the S-tog in Copenhagen. The main authors of this article chose to single out these few systems as being the most like an S-Bahn, and I feel that the rest of us should defer to that judgment. These references adequately function to place the S-Bahnen in an international context.
3. Duplication of articles: Wikipedia already contains numerous articles, categories, and lists which discuss passenger rail transit in more general terms. These are more appropriate places for discussion of non-German rail systems.
4. Subjectivity: This is my main objection. Similar is a subjective term. There is no objective standard as to how alike two systems must be to be considered similar. This opens the door to claiming that any suburban rail system is similar to the S-Bahnen. I believe this is exactly what has happened in this case. I believe that the comparison of North American commuter rail systems to the German S-Bahnen is highly inaccurate. I think commuter rail systems in cities such as New York, Chicago, and Toronto are more equivalent to German RegionalBahnen than S-Bahnen. S-Bahn systems are more like rapid transit systems, but they extend further out into the suburbs than fully grade-separated U-Bahn systems. I think the best North American equivalent would be the San Francisco BART. While I will admit I know little about rail systems outside North America, I suspect that some of the UK systems are listed more out of civic pride than any real similarity to S-Bahn networks. By deleting the entire section we would avoid edit wars where editors quibble over which systems are similar enough to be listed. DHimmelspach 01:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it's useful in providing a context that the reader can recognise, and a general overview of suburban rail. I wrote the UK section, and a lot of the systems are there specifically to say what is [i]not[/i] like an S-Bahn, why. This means it has become more generalised, so perhaps the whole section could be separated off into its own article; I think as a list it's really useful, and I'd hate to see it deleted. ArtVandelay13 19:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Rather than deleting the list, I've been working on rewriting the United States section using the UK section as a model. My hope is that in the future, editors will read what is there now and provide some justification for any additions to the list. DHimmelspach 18:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)