Talk:Russian Guards

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[edit] Ukrainian Guards

Anyone know if Ukraine's military retained the Guards status from the Soviet Union? —Michael Z. 2007-08-27 18:40 Z

Yes. Check user:Ceriy's articles. Buckshot06 22:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

They did retain Guards designation. Heres an incomplete list of units List of guards units of Ukraine Ceriy 03:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming

Guards units in the USSR were not "Russian Guards". Should this article be renamed Guards unit or something? —Michael Z. 2007-08-27 18:48 Z

No, I think the article should be splited, by creating a new "Soviet Guards" page. --Eurocopter tigre 20:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Shall I split the current article into Soviet Guards and List of Russian Guards units? —Michael Z. 2007-08-29 01:04 Z

I actually think Soviet Guards it's enough. --Eurocopter tigre 15:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

No, because the guards designation is used in the former Soviet Union, as well as Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine, and possibly other post-Soviet republics. The Soviet Union section here should be split off into a new article Guards unit. —Michael Z. 2007-10-23 21:32 Z

Guards unit can be confused with all kinds of things. I suggest something like 'Soviet and post-Soviet states military Guards designation'. Buckshot06 22:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be a problem, since there was not a single link to Guards unit. There are various guards (n. pl.) or guard (s. adj.) units, but what else is referred to as a guards (pl. adj.) unit?

But do you prefer renaming or re-merging the article with this one? Can we remove the merge tag?

This article was a mess,[1] with random information belonging to several other articles or on its own, and should probably now be turned into a disambiguation page, unless there is some more cogent thread to be drawn between the various kinds of things called "guard" or "guards" in Russia. Should we also add the following?:

Druzhina, the Knyaz's bodyguard
Streltsy, referred to as "Russian guardsmen"
Internal Troops ("Internal Guard")
USSR Border Troops ("Border Guards")
Ninth Chief Directorate of the USSR, responsible for bodyguarding, which later became the FPSR:
Federal Protective Service of Russia responsible for bodyguarding, which includes
- Border Guard Service of Russia
- Kremlin Regiment (Presidential Guard)

—Michael Z. 2007-10-23 23:00 Z

[moved discussion from user talk:Mzajac#Guards unit —MZ]

Having looked at this, this is good, with the only real problem being the title. I really believe this should have a state indication on it. Soviet & FSU Guards units? Buckshot06 20:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that adding a state indication would be a good thing, if it didn't become something awkward or unwieldy. Soviet and former Soviet Union Guards unit is a bit wordy, and possibly confusing. Maybe Guards unit (Soviet and post-Soviet)?

Leaving it as is wouldn't be completely unacceptable, as there are precedents in the British Guards Division/Guards Division (disambiguation) and Napoleonic Imperial Guard/Imperial Guard (disambiguation).

Looking at the article, the identity is clear from the first line. Disambiguation isn't technically necessary I think. The Commonwealth Foot Guards for example, are generally "regiments of guards" rather than "guards regiments", although the adjective is used sometimes, for example the higher administrative formations, the Guards Division, or the Guards Armoured Division. Also, Wikipedia is already using the broader Category:Guards Regiments (shouldn't that be "Guard regiments"?).

Incidentally, there is quite a list of related disambiguation pages on what is at root a similar concept, most of them linked from List of army units called Guards.