Talk:Rumpelstiltskin

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I have removed the following piece because it a) was in the wrong place and b) probably deserves its own article anyway. I have archived it here in the case of a dispute:

Rumplestiltskin Syndrome Analogical reference to the role of the king in the fairy story. Common practice in middle-management to impose unreasonable work demands on subordinates. On completion of task in question, equal or higher work demands are then imposed, moreover no credit; acknowledgement or overt appreciation is demonstrated by way of recognition.

--Jacqui ★ 05:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I re-added to an appropriate location, and reworded it for clarity.

Contents

[edit] Odd and wrong wording

"The king was so impressed that he let the miller marry his beautiful daughter..." Was this just a mistake, or is it the product of vandalism? I'm too busy atm to check, I'll check later if noone else has. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.70.254.85 (talk) 21:16, August 30, 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Penis

Heh, well it's true! What's a stilt with a rumpled skin? A penis! The metaphore needs adding to this wiki. (I am too lazy :p ) Borgs8472 21:03, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Deleted after reading the discussion below. Bryces 23:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-semitic?

While I have seen this sort of analysis in online articles, it strikes me as cranky. In fact the only thing I see as anti-semitic is the very suggestion that Rumpelstiltskin is somehow Jewish simiar to statements people make that the Ferengi in Star Trek are an anti-semitic caricature, the people making such a claim are revealing their own anti-semitic thinking. There is also nothing unpronounceable or foreign about "Rumpelstilzchen" to a German speaker which is not only very pronounceable but is a clear reference to the type of goblin called a rumpelstilz. The theme of wanting the child ties up with similar ideas of changelings in folklore. By itself its not sinister the impression is that he simply wants a child. Saying its sinister reminds me of silly jokes about Gepeto making Pinocchio because he was a pedophile. Kuratowski's Ghost 17:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll admit I find this analysis rather strange myself but I looked it up at SurLaLune Fairy Tales and apparently it's copied almost literally from there. Some literary analyst who dissected this fairy tale came up with it. --Steerpike 20:26, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I think people get the notion that Rumpelstilzchen is anti-semitic for the fact that there are anti-semitic stories the Grimms have included (ie. The Jew in the Brambles) in their collections, and that they themselves were anti-semitic (most Germans were at the time). Doesn't mean every story is though, because you have to remember that these stories were collected, not exactly originated by them. Some stories origins going back to the early Holy Roman Empire era, or even earlier. That's what I have gathered in reading biographies and analysis on the Grimms and their collections. JanderVK

How is it Anti-Semetic???????

[edit] Meaning

As pointed out by a fluent German speaker (which I am not), the meaning is actually little rattle stilt not, rattle stlits, -chen being the German diminutive suffix. The Dutch name Repelsteeltje has the same meaning and structure, repel = rattle, steel = stilt/style, -tje = diminutive ending.

Something I've noticed but cannot find a mentioned in any reference is the other English name Tom Tit Tot appears to be onomatapoeia for rapping. There is a also a Scandinavian goblin called a tomte which might be related, again I can't find a reference though Kuratowski's Ghost 02:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

"As pointed out by a fluent German speaker (which I am not), the meaning is actually little rattle stilt ..."

How about to translate the german "rumpel" with "rumble" instead of "rattle"? Me beeing a german can not judge, if it would be the better word. But almost sounds the same and I assume, that these two words linguistical are even germane? -- 89.56.43.205 (talk) 00:36, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Variations

Many people are familiar with Grimm tales through a sanitized, less violent version. In one that I remember, Rumplestiltskin did not tear himself apart in his rage, but stamped on the floor until he fell through and was trapped. Richard K. Carson 05:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I have written out (in summarised form) the account of this story in the pop-science book 'The Science of Discworld II: The Globe', by Terry Pratchett and two others. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of their source (two researchers of childrens culture, Peter and Iona Opie); however, since it has been published, I think it should be listed in the article (and probably further researched). I freely admit, however, that it probably needs to be clarified as possibly inaccurate. Michaelsanders 23:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC

Does anyone know where Rumplestiltskin used to sleep? I grew up understanding that it was always under a bed. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Basil Biggins.

[edit] The Spouses Opie

How reliable are these guys? The early versions of the story were in German surely, did they really have "what is a stilt with rumpled skin?" The German rumpel means something like rattle and has nothing to do with English "rumple". Also there is no "skin" involved its an English pronunciation of the -zchen at the end of the German name. Did the Opies really make such a claim, sounds like a silly a joke to me along the lines of rumpled foreskin. Kuratowski's Ghost 22:50, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I have a horrible feeling that you are right. However, I have merely summarised the published page on the matter in the SoD, and have not seen the original research. Because of this, I will try searching the internet for the Opie text, but until then simply cannot address your points. Suffice it to say that I thought (and still think) that SoD was saying that the Opies had made these points. I will try to type the section in full (it isn't long) onto this discussion when I have time. Michaelsanders 23:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

“We don’t program our children rationally, as we might set up a computer. Instead, we pour into their minds loads of irrational junk…We embed the teaching messages [to program children] in long sagas, in priestly injunctions, and invented histories full of dramatic lessons; in children’s stories that teach them by indirection. Stand near a childrens playground and watch…Peter and Iona Opie did just that, many years ago, and collected childrens songs and games… The Opies later collected, and explained to adults, the original nursery stories like Cinderella and Rumpelstiltskin…[there follows an explanation of Cinderella as originally having the Prince ‘try out’ the ‘fur slippers’ of the girls before finding Cinderella] Rumpelstiltskin was an interesting sexual parable too, a tale to programme the idea that female masturbation leads to sterility. Remember the tale? The millers daughter, put in the barn to ‘spin straw into gold’, virginally sits on [author’s Italics] a little stick that becomes a little man… The denouement has the little man, when his name is finally identified, jumping in to ‘plug’ the lady very intimately, and the assembled soldiers can’t pull him out. In the modern bowdlerised version, this survives vestigially as the little man pushing his foot through the floor and not being able to pull him out, a total non sequiter. So none of those concerned, king, miller or queen, can procreate (the stolen first child having been killed by the soldiers) and it all ends in tears. If you doubt this interpretation, enjoy the indirection: “What is his name? What is his name?” recurs in the story. What is [author’s Italics] his name? What is a stilt with a rumpled skin? Whoops. The name has an equivalent derivation in many languages, too.” Source: 'The Science of Discworld II: The Globe' (Pratchett, Stewart, Cohen); paperback edition, pp. 114-115 Found time. The ‘rumpled skin’ reference may not, on closer inspection, be from the Opies. I leave that to be discussed here. I will try to research them online (don’t suppose they’re on Wikipedia?)Michaelsanders 23:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

In which of their publications is this material said to be found? The "fur slippers" cackamamie blather derives from an outmoded assertion that the pantoffles de verre were pantouffles de vair (ermine)—for which there is as little basis as, I suspect, this amusingly prurient "reading" in Discordian mode. A ludibrium? Mayn't we delete it till we hear which Odie publication this summarizes? Why not make a more sensible contribution with an article on Peter and Iona Opie themselves, eh? --Wetman 03:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


I have spent a few minutes to create a stub on the Opies: perhaps Michaelsanders can continue the list of titles. I hope the Opie reference to the interpretation of Rumplestiltskin can be located, and that we may return the text to the article. --Wetman 03:45, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And the moral of the story is... what?

???

-G


It's a fairy tale, not a fable. Therefore there really isn't a moral to it. The closest you'll get is the interpretations.
MasterOfMadmen 19:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

There are moral's to the Grimms fairy tales, most of the time atleast. They were usually orally told to keep children out of harms way (ie. Don't go into the woods alone (Redcap, Hansel), understanding mortality (How Children Play Butcher With Each Other) etc.. Also other morals (ie. don't be a braggert (Rumpestilzchen), if you wish to be happy in life, there are obstacles in life one must take (The Goose Girl) etc.). All of these tales originated throughout periods of European history when life was very tough and mortality rates were quite high. Children usually couldn't be protected from reality of everday life, so these stories were told as a warning. JanderVK

[edit] Movie

It was adapted into a movie starrig amy irving in 1987. that should be added. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093891/ Janemansfield74 01:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Another American made movie is a later one by the same name, but is a horror flick http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114306/ Ofcourse you have earlier German made movies also.. JanderVK

[edit] Grimm Brothers/Brothers Grimm

Since the link is to a page called "Brothers Grimm," I decided to change it to that on this page. I think they are pretty much universally known as The Brothers Grimm, so I think the change is justified. 70.50.53.49 15:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Literal translation

I am afraid the given text is not a translation of the original rhyme which goes like this:

Heute back ich, morgen brau ich,
übermorgen hol ich der Königin ihr Kind;
ach, wie gut ist daß niemand weiß
daß ich Rumpelstilzchen heiß!

(source: http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/?id=5&xid=969&kapitel=233&cHash=b2042df08b2#gb_found)

a literal translation of the original would rather be:

Today I bake, tomorrow I brew,
the day after tomorrow I go and get the Queens child;
Oh, how good it is that no one knows
that my name is Rumpelstiltskin!

Andreas Sumerauer (talk) 19:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Who in hell wrote "Rumpelstiltskin **and O** Anão Dançarino (the dancing dwarf)"? Is it portuglish? The right form is: "Rumpelstiltskin **e o** Anão Dançarino (the dancing dwarf)" not "and o". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.15.206.97 (talk) 17:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)