Talk:Rumba (dance)

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Should we really describe a basic in so much detail? Especially since basics differ so much in different places? I've seen three variations, and the one on this page makes four. Bihal 02:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename to Ballroom rumba

I suggest we rename this article to "Ballroom rumba" or "Bolero", to distinguish it from the dance with the same name danced on Cuba.62.142.46.22 00:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree this suggestion. This article suffers from the same ambiguity and conflation as the Rumba entry does. At least as far as the dance goes I would go with Ballroom rumba rather than Bolero, if for no other reason than because the word "Rumba" is so widely used in the Ballroom community.

Agree. The ballroom article should be written to carefully distinguish between American and International ballroom rumba. The steps in the article currently are American style, International does not use the box step. This looks like a good reference: [1] Vagary 05:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some issues ...

I've tagged this article to note both the problems with factual accuracy and the suggestion to split the article. Here are my thoughts in detail (apologies for the length, but there is a lot to talk about here):

In the section called "Cuban Rumba", we have the following sentence: "Later, Prohibition in the United States caused a flourishing of the relatively-tolerated cabaret Rumba, as American tourists flocked to see crude sainetes (short plays) which featured racial stereotypes and generally, though not always, Rumba."

Are we sure hear that this was in fact real Cuban rumba (ie, guaguancó, yambú, columbia), and not some variant of the son that was mislabeled by the American public.´ Can we get some kind of source on this?

We also have the following sentence:

"Rumba is thought to have contributed to the origin of the cha-cha-cha, and indeed most figures (if not all, somehow) can be reinterpreted in cha-cha-cha."

Why is this in the "Cuban rumba" section? This is now clearly refering to ballroom rumba, which again is not even in the rumba family. Ballroom rumba is an Americanized version of the Cuban son. Besides, this strikes me as a highly dubious claim. The dance "cha cha chá" is a clear derivative of the mambo, which is in turn a member of the Cuban "son" family of dances. Ballroom rumba is also in this same family, sharing among other things a similar basic, which is why you can reinterpret figures easily between the dances, but it doesn't at all follow that Ballroom rumba contributed to the origin of the cha cha chá in any significant way. It certainly isn't in any way a parent dance.

"Traditional belief holds that the Rumba was originally contrived within the Afro-Cuban population in Cuba." Traditional belief? There is no doubt about this whatsoever. However this does not apply to "Ballroom rumba", it only applies to true Cuban rumba. Yet another issue that can be solved through splitting the article.

Under Early American Rumba we have the following:

"This kind of Rumba introduced into American dance salons at the beginning of the 20th century, characterized high tempo, nearly twice as fast as the modern ballroom Rumba, typical examples being the tunes The Peanut Ventor and Siboney."

So it looks like we're suddenly talking about music again, rather than dance. The Peanut Vender is not a rumba; it is a son. It may have been widely called a "Rhumba" in the United States at the time but that's a total misnomer, as any Cuban music scholar will tell you. I'm sure the same goes for Siboney. I understand that the terminology in Ballroom circles is different, but the issue should be mentioned and clearly resolved in the article. The ballroom 'lingo' should be the footnote here, not the correct terminology.

So my suggestions are, before making any changes to this article, to separate the Rumba (dance) article into two separate articles: one for Rumba and one for Ballroom rumba. This is parallel to the change I've suggested in the main Rumba article, which suffers many of the same shortcomings. Having the two separate will resolve many of the issues I've mentioned above. We just have to make it clear, in the Ballroom rumba article that it did not decend from the afro-Cuban rumba as formed in Havana and Matanzas, but rather from the Cuban son.

I agree. You must be a Virgo. Because you found more mistakes than I did. Rhumba Master 08:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation/Splitting

I agree that folkloric Rumba and ballroom Rumba should be separated. I'm confused about the place of the spelling "Rhumba" within all this. I thought Rhumba with an H was the ballroom word and without an H was the folkloric word... Maybe this is just in the English ballroom tradition though?

Perhaps ballroom Rumba should be called "Rumba (dancesport)", though I find the whole notion of dancesport abhorrent, it does seem to clearly delineate the competitive Ballroom styles. (Though this rather leaves the social ballroom dancer out in the cold)