Talk:Roy Eugene Davis

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Failed verification

  • Yoga Gems p108 does not support that "Roy Eugene Davis (born 9 March 1931) is an American Kriya Yoga master" (it only give a Davis quotation)
The book is Yoga Gems: A Treasury of Practical and Spiritual Wisdom from Ancient and Modern Masters. It is a collection of yogic quotes from masters. If Roy Eugene Davis is not considered by the author as a yoga master his words will not be quoted there. But there are many styles of yoga so we put Kriya Yoga to be specific. WP articles are not meant to be verbatim copies of what is written in the references.
  • So the book doeasn't state that he's a yoga master, it merely assumes that he's one -- very reliable. HrafnTalkStalk 19:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Centering: A Guide to Inner Growth p188 does not support that he is "a widely-recognized authority in meditation and creative imagination" only that the author of that book cites another author as citing Davis as "an expert on yoga, meditation, and creative imagination" -- two authors is "widely"? I don't think so.
We have three third-party authors now who agree that the subject, whom you personally believe to be unnotable, is an expert on the subject. How much more references do you need? There are a lot of WP articles whose information are not referenced this way. What is your problem with Roy Eugene Davis?
  • No -- we only have two -- one of which only does it by citation, not by direct statement. HrafnTalkStalk 19:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

(Additionally, neither of these first two references are remotely "scholarly", so are at best very marginal sources.)

Who are you to decide what is a "scholarly reference" for a particular subject? We are merely establishing notability. The Paramahansa Yogananda article only have one major reference, and that is the Yogananda's autobiography. In fact Surrendered Love, Redeeming Grace is enough reference for the little information about Roy Eugene Davis in this article, since it is a biography of a living person. But you have asked for third party references in order to establish notability and some have already been provided. Now you want the paragraphs to be verbatim quotes of what are written in the references. That is just "ridiculous".
  • Fine -- I'll be happy to put a notability-tag & primarysources-tag on that article also. HrafnTalkStalk 19:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Japanese New Religions in the West p. 53 is only to a footnote "Roy Eugene Davis, Miracle Man of Japan (Lakemont, GA: CSA Press 1970)"

Yes, because Roy Eugene Davis' Miracle Man of Japan is the biography of the later Mr. Taniguchi of Seicho-No-Ie.

  • Then cite Miracle Man of Japan -- because Japanese New Religions in the West says nothing about this! HrafnTalkStalk 19:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
  • The Path: One Man's Quest on the Only Path There is p. 367 is to a photograph of a shrine dedication ceremony. Davis is listed as being in it, but it contains not further information.

Absolutely wrong. The information about Davis is in the footnote. Purchase a copy of the books instead of relying on the Amazon.com previews. You are supposed to have the references at hand, otherwise you are not capable of verifying them.

  • Says who? There is nothing in WP:V that states that it has to be based upon a hard-copy. If your copy is from a different edition to the ISBN number you cite (which the Amazon search is an electronic facsimile of), then that's your problem.
  • The Encyclopedia of Cults, Sects, and New Religions (which has the wrong ISBN listed)
Then provide the correct the ISBN, which is very easy to do. Every now and then an editor will make unintentional error, this is why WP is a collaborative work.
  • There are multiple alternate ISBN numbers for this book. You added it -- you choose.

supports that he "headed the Self-Realization Fellowship center in Phoenix" (but not when) and that he later left, it does not however support that his leaving was because he was "aware of a need to learn to live effectively in the secular world", nor does it support that he spent "2 years in the U.S. Army Medical Corps at Fort Riley, Kansas". It supports that he "travelled around the country speaking, and this gave CSA a nationwide audience".

If you are not happy with the article then EDIT it instead of asking another editor to infringe other people's copyrights by reproducing the contents of their books verbatim in a WP article, or messing up an article with all the tags that you can possibly muster.
  • I will eventually -- and will remove all the unsourced/unreliably sourced material. I am merely, as a courtesy, allowing you time to rectify the defects in your references. Edit summaries such as this one will of course reduce the courtesy accorded to you substantially. HrafnTalkStalk 19:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Only The Encyclopedia of Cults, Sects, and New Religions citation is more than a passing mention -- and even it gives only one paragraph + one sentence -- hardly "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". HrafnTalkStalk 18:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

It is not for us to decide those things. Your only argument to begin with is possible unnotability, which has already been disproved, hence the removal of your tags. FScalano (talk) 18:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
  • It's up to the consensus. Your handful of junk references disprove nothing at all. HrafnTalkStalk 19:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)