Talk:Romantic poetry
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How the *** did this happen? --Quuxplusone 06:45, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. Dragons flight 22:39, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Where
Where are the brazillian and portuguese poets?? 200.158.47.230 19:59, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi there! I know this is a very important article and that it has to be constantly under seeing. I want to thank teh first ones who wrote it, but I have, as brazilian, the necessity to ask: Where are the portuguese language poets? Some hours ago I came here and edited the article. I added, as a poet from Brazil, Álvares de Azevedo. Later I saw that there wasn´t no article, in english, talking about him. With all the responsability taht wikipedia requers, a translated the brazilian article to english. Now we have in enslih the link to Alvares de Azevedo. I had a big surprise when a came back to this article and found that someone has took off Alvare´s link. I ask you, let it there, he was very important and NOW has its english article.
Thanks, Tomaz Amorim
PS: Sorry for the possible writing mistakes on the article, I´d be very glad if some of you, instead of just deleting it, could improve it.
Hello again... Yeah, I understand your point. On the article we´re talinking about the romantic poetry on the Romantic Scholl of Europe. I have some points to discuss. My name is Tomaz Amorim, as you must guess I´m brazilian. I started this year at Unicamp (Stadual University of Campinas, top 300 on best world universities) the course of Literary Studies (Estudos Literário, in portuguese). I´m not so old on wikipedia, must been using it for 6 months or something like that. I wanted to include this two brazilian writers (Alvarez de Azevedo and Castro Alves)on the article about Romantic poetry because a consider that the movement started, of course, in Europe, but it has grown in all world, including Brazil and other latine countryes. My point is that the Romantic poetry is just poetry of the Romantic movement. And yes, we had a big romantic movement on Brazil. One thing i couldn´t understand was your saying that our authors aren´t as romantic as Goeth. Two questions, first, what is being truly romantic? Second, do you know Alvares de Azevedo´s work? I will include again the two authors not as an anarkist thing, but as an improvement to the article. It is about romantic poetry, and these two brazilian authors wrote romantic poetry adn were famous for it. This won´t, in anyway, deprecite the article. Another question is... Why Poe and other united state americans appear on the list? Sorry, but I fell a colonialist thought on all this. My e-mail and MSN is tommy_amorim@yahoo.com.br I´d be glad to discuss the situation.
[edit] German poetry
It is a total misunderstanding that Goethe or Schiller are integrated in the German romantic movement. The begin of the German romanticism (at the end of the 18th century) started as a parallel, overlapping movement to the so called "Weimarer Klassik"(classicism), to which Goethe and Schiller belong. Both, Goethe and Schiller, didn't identify with the theory and the poetry of the romanticists at all - on the contrary they fought against the romantic subjectivism and the - from their point of view - exaggerated accentuation of the emotion. Also Friedrich Hölderlin with his enthusiasm towards the Greek antiquity is not really part of the romantic movement. The prominent members of the German romantic movement were Novalis (=Friedrich von Hardenberg), Friedrich Schlegel, E.T.A Hoffmann, Achim von Arnim, Ludwig Tieck, Joseph von Eichendorff, Clemens Brentano.
- This is a matter of taste and definition. Most authorities regard these poets as Romanticists. If we adopt your rigid definition of the movement, we should eliminate Keats, Burns, Leopardi, Pushkin, Baratynsky, Tyutchev... Neither of these identified himself with the poetics of the romanticists. Many did not like the Byronic subjectivism and commended the detachment of Greek/Roman poetry, imitating poetic forms more conservative than are normally associated with Romanticism. --Ghirla -трёп- 14:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but your reply is not common sense. There is, in fact, no single 'authority' who would claim that Goethe or Schiller were Romanticists, and the air becomes quite thin for Hölderlin or Heine to be termed Romanticists as well. Goethe and Schiller are the protagonists of the Weimar classics in the first place, which is not a branch of romanticism. If you would be familiar with the relevant sources in German, there wouldbe no argument about that whatsoever. To claim that Goethe and Schiller are Romanticists on your ground does harm to the quality and dignity of Wikipedia. There is an ongoing debate about quality of public encyclopedia anyway, and it does not need to be fuelled with such nonsense as your claims. To be honest, you claim is like thinking of a rhinozeros as a plant. This is not a matter of taste and definition. This is a matter of common knowledge. Every six-year-old in Germany will tell you that Goethe and Schiller are classics.
- OK, I checked the latest edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. It says: "The greatest figure of German Romanticism, Goethe is regarded as a giant of world literature".[1] If I am to chose between "every six-year-old in Germany" and Britannica (which is written by academic scholars), I feel obliged to choose the latter. --Ghirla -трёп- 07:52, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
If you quote correctly, there is only said: "German poet, novelist, playwright, and natural philospoher, the greatest figure of the German Romantic period and of German literature as a whole." In this way the describtion is nur directly false, but - for my understanding - a little bit misleading: It only says that Goethe is the greatest figure of the Romantic period (!). This refers to the circumstance, that the second half of his life coincidents with the beginning of the Romantic movement in Germany. The so-called "Weimar classicism" is also a poetic movement, which falls within the limits of the Romantic period, but nobody would describe it as romantic movement. It isn't said, that Goethe is a figure of the Romanticism. On the same homepage of the Britannica you can find two links (Goethe and the Romantics, Goethes's relation to the Romantics), which describe the complex relation between Goethe and the German Romantic movement, which is in fact very complex. For a further check you can also go to the German Homepage of wikipedia, where you find a list of German romantic poetist: You will find neihter Schiller nor Goethe...
Sorry, I had another link, which lead me to the described result (also Britannica). In your case, it's hard to believe, the Online-version of the Britannica is obviously incorrect!
Perhaps you should believe it, because this is about German literature! In the English Wikipedia everything is perfectly described: Goethe is one of the poetist who influenced the later Romanticism - for example with his early novel "The Sorrows of Young Werther" (which belongs to the German movement "Sturm und Drang" before the "Weimarer Klassik" and before the begin of the "Romantik"). Certainly you have noticed, that many the poets I listed (Novalis, Tieck, Eichendorff, Brentano, Arnim, Hoffmann) are mentioned in the English Wikipedia as well. In the English wikipedia-article neihter Goethe nor Schiller are included as "important writers of the early German romanticism" (Schiller was almost dead at the begin of that movement, so his name is absolutely ridiculous!)
("An early German influence came from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe whose 1774 novel The Sorrows of Young Werther had young men throughout Europe emulating its protagonist, a young artist with a very sensitive and passionate temperament. At that time Germany was a multitude of small separate states, and Goethe's works would have a seminal influence in developing a unifying sense of nationalism. Important writers of early German romanticism were Ludwig Tieck, Novalis (Heinrich von Ofterdingen, 1799) and Friedrich Hoelderlin. Heidelberg later became a center of German romanticism, where writers and poets such as Clemens Brentano, Achim von Arnim and Joseph von Eichendorff met regularly in literary circles. Since the Romanticists opposed Enlightenment, they often focused on emotions and dreams (vs. rationalism) in their works. Other important motives in German Romanticism are travelling, nature and ancient myths. The late German Romanticism (of, for example, E.T.A. Hoffmann's Der Sandmann - The Sandman, 1817, and Eichendorff's Das Marmorbild - The Marble Statue, 1819) was somewhat darker in its motives and has some gothic elements.")
I have done my best to give the readers of wikipedia the correct information. I'm tired to find my changes always beeing undone. I am sure, everyone, who knows only a little bit about German literature , knows what I am speaking about. I am from Germany, I studied German literature - especially the Romanticism, so I really know the facts! '
- I don't know much about German literature, but Der Erlkönig is as Romantic a poem as you can get. There is nothing "classical" about it. Tieck and Schlegel do not seem to be notable as poets. The article about E.T.A. Hoffmann does not mention that he wrote poems at all, let alone that he was a "major poet" as you put it. It seems to me than your opinions are highly subjective. --Ghirla -трёп- 12:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Since when is Rainer Maria Rilke a Czech Poet? Please add him to the German catagory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hallucinoire (talk • contribs) 05:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] major and minor poets
what is the difference between a major and a minor poet? Poe is generally regarded as a pretty poor poet. So what makes him a major poet? TheDarknessVisible 06:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
- I totally agree. I think the distinction should just be removed. You cite Poe - another example is Barbauld, who is listed as "minor", but was one of the most famous poets of her time (in England). Many poets who used to be very popular in their time were later forgotten, or the other way around. And there cannot be any clear criteria for a classification according to "quality" either that would justify such a distinction. 6 July 2007
- I agree too. It should be removed. Plus, when you list poets, what is the policy? Who should be listed and who not? I have added Tagore in Bengal. But, I think, it should be according to language, instead of country. --Amr (talk) 16:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Update Needed
A section needs to be added for German Romantic Poetry and possibly a merge of Russia Romantic poetry into this article. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:34, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
