Talk:Rodolfo Valentin

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Rodolfo Valentin was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: April 20, 2007

I tried to remove some of the more egregious advertising and cleaned up the English a bit. It still seems rather like an advertisement, but it's better. bikeable (talk) 22:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Justice all the way reverted my edits above. I had mistakenly left out the section on hair infusion. I have now reverted back to my edited version, and have also included the hair infusion section, although that looks a lot like an advertisement and still needs to be cleaned up. Please do not revert this again without considering the changes in some detail: all of my edits are removal of POV statements or improvements in English grammar and usage. Please discuss changes on this page. bikeable (talk) 04:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Bikeable, the hair infusion previously had its own article, but the wikimedia administrator gmaxwell has merged them together, which was nice because it relates to an invention created by the same person "Rodolfo Valentin".The whole article was revised and edited by gmaxwell. Hi is a english speaking native. Please understand that the information containing the names of the jet set people is important. I don't agree that it looks like an advertisement, and if it does, it is probably caused by the important people named in the article. but after all, wikipedia was created to provide people with the most information possible!. It shows in every article when they are small or contains little information, Wikipedia asks" Please help improve this article or section by expanding it". Please don't cut parts of it. Each and all of them is important to inform people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justice all the way (talk • contribs) 16:58, 5 April 2007

Bikeable's version of the article is much better written including the English. And no, Wikipedia was not created to provide people with as much information possible. Please read What Wikipedia is not. Thanks. — Dorvaq (talk) 17:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Dorvaq. Justice, if you are only concerned about the sentence about the "jet set", then add it back in, but please don't revert the other improvements. I deleted that sentence because it is simply a list of clients, and looks like advertising. As for GMaxwell's edits, yes, he merged the "Hair infusion" back into this article, but that was two months ago and many other edits have been made since then; the grammar needed a lot of work. Finally, please discuss changes to the article here. bikeable (talk) 18:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
This article looks to have been pure advertising. Good work bikeable, in fact it needs more cutting. Photo I removed seems to be from "Greek american newsphotos", and was uploaded by a poster who has had most of tehir uploaded pictures removed due to copyright questions
There are new several articles associted with the originators of this advertisment which include some rather outrageous advertisng statements. eg Sofia's Hair 4 Health said:
"""Rodolfo Valentin is the designer of the first hair prosthesis in the world, and the sole supporter of this organization."""
Hair prostheses have been around since ancient history. Unless Mr. Valentin (perhaps one (several) of the editors inserting all these valentine associated advertisements in wikipedia] is 4000 years old?Walker42 16:35, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] IN RESPONSE TO USER:WALKER42 ABOVE COMMENTS

WIGS have been around from thousand of years, but hair prosthesis are a new thing created much much later after a disease was named "cancer" in the present time, and "cancer" was treated with chemotherapy...( even before was treated with radiation, chemotherapy was not available either until the 70's),the causes of hair loss in people with cancer started with the chemotherapy and hair prosthesis are a medical item created as a result of chemotherapy side effect of hair loss. The first hair prosthesis was designed by Rodolfo Valentin. Rodolfo Valentin was the designer(and perfected) the first hair prosthesis (cancer wig). IT IS CORRECTLY TRUE. Rodolfo Valentin perfected the first cancer wig in 1973.In fact he designed it for his mother a chemotherapy patient losing her hair. Before then, people losing their hair due to chemotherapy treatments only had available regular wigs that were very uncomfortable and keep felling off from their head and giving them bad allergic reactions from the contact with the material and the foreign hair. The difference between wig and hair prosthesis ( or cancer wig) is that a wig does not uses hypoallergenic material (inexistent until few decades ago)…and the double tape (invented for medical reasons) is also available from few decades ago. Rodolfo used that tape to hold the wig in the head of the patients when getting “bald” after chemotherapy. The tape in the original “cancer wig” was attached to portions of the prosthesis; in those portions a kind of enamel call “polyurethane coat” was applied to support the tape. Because the hair grows back after a year, it was necessary of slowly adding special pin-clips to hold the prosthesis. Rodolfo was the designer of taking the cranial mold, use a hypoallergenic material to create a base where to attach the ventilated hair (one by one) making sure that the hair does not touch the over sensitive cranial skin to avoid sores. He called it "cancer wig" and some people still do, the name of "hair prosthesis" came out for insurance purposes,because insurances only cover "prosthesis" from there the name of "hair prosthesis" ( prostheses) for plural.

Other issue is about “HAIR INFUSION” which also is an invention of Rodolfo Valentin. It is a damage free hair extensions technique. It is easily proved by visiting the US trademark office site to see the trademark under the name of RODOLFO VALENTIN and his partner JORGE MARIA PEREZ. THE LINK TO THE TRADEMARK TO PROVE THE HAIR INFUSION ISSUE IS: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=ulfvh1.2.1 I am sorry, but it is that way, Rodolfo Valentin, is not a simple hairdresser...he is a creator..a designer!.

Hair prosthesis and hair extensions (eg hair infusion) have been around for thousands of years. There are literally hundreds of trademark names for the same processes and wigs. in fact you previously edited hair extensions page to indicate that is what "hair infusion" was.
Please stop spamming wikipedia, a many editors here will just keep removing it.
Did you really put an advertisement link for your service on the general wikipedia page for cancer? that is over the top as well.Walker42 00:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

==verifiable sources== I am adding one by one the sources to verify each of the statements about Rodolfo Valentin. I also don't understand why big pieces of the article has been removed!. Also the picture about Rodolfo with Mrs.Catsimatidis and Ms.Milos. and the people of the New York jet-set related to him. it is very confusing how wikipedia ask to expand an article and then remove when adding information showing who the person is. Also, when trying to add external sources to verify, they are removed because it looks like an "advertisement'??. Any way, here are the sources. Please, I will not touch my own article anymore, it is anoying what is going on...but I will really like somebody with common sence to add back the information showing the name of the people related to Rodolfo. After all, wikipedia wants to have a biography of people who are somebody right?.

1- “Recruited by Alexandre de Paris” can be verified by clicking in the link below to the Daily News article that states:”He apprenticed with a top Argentine stylist and then went to work for the famed Alexandre de Paris, who tamed Jackie Kennedy's tresses”.. http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:9R_zbKIieegJ:www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/03/03/2007-03-03_keeping_a_promise_society_hairdresser_ma-2.html+alexandre+de+paris+clients&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=34&gl=us

2- Univision: featured in the program “Despierta America”. On 1/13/2005 about his charity “Sofia’s hair 4 health”, the production of that program brought a recipient of the free wig and paid for all the expenses including the flight, hotel and meals (of course, except the hair prosthesis donated by Rodolfo) and make a 20 minutes program about it. Second time: Univision made a program about “Rodolfo” hair infusion in 2005 presented by Ana Maria Belaval (also in Despierta America). Also the local NY channel 41- produced a big show about Rodolfo Valentin on “Noticias al Despertar” on 02/03/03

3- “Banyan Productions” featured a show call “Beauty is a drag” on July 16-18-2004. Rodolfo Valentin Salon was used for the show. The executive producer was: Michelle Clark- Banyan Productions phone 215.928.1414

4- Telemundo- Noticias (news), a long segment Rodolfo Valentin biography conducted by “Odalys”- last April 10-2007- You can double-confirm it by contacting Telemundo or the Anchor women “Odalys” at her email: odalys68@aol.com

5- NY1 (New York 1)- last time it was also Rodolfo Valentin biography on the “Spanish” news segment. The anchorwomen name is “ Marah Ramirez”. It was recently featured on March-31-2007- to reconfirm it you can email to: noticias@ny1noticias.com

6- Warner Bros, entertainment. They use Rodolfo Valentin hairpieces and services for the movies. Last time worked for the Warner Bros, it was for the actress “Cathy Moriarty” for the movie “Analyze that “ on 2003- Rodolfo Valentin Warner Bros. account number is P006040332

7- Regarding the jet-set names of socialites, it is easy for me to get a written- note for each of them stating their relationship with Rodolfo if requested.

8- Grand Design Award by Takara-Belmont 2001- link showing the trophy below: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:ZZqeRdBHohkJ:www.rodolfovalentin.com/rv/awards_accolades.htm+takara+belmont+rodolfo+valentin+salon&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

9- Hair coloring techniques award by BES (Beauty and Science), Milano- Italy 2002 Copy of the Diploma signed by the President is available upon request.

10- Featured in the Dr. Day’s book “Forget the facelift” is easily verifiable by reading the book.

11- About Rodolfo Valentin last invention called “The hair infusion”, it is also easily verifiable by visiting the US TRADEMARK OFFICE: http://www.uspto.gov/# Click on “search trademarks”, then select “basic search form”, and then type in the search ‘THE HARI INFUSION”, it will show you at the bottom RODOLFO VALENTIN name as a trademark owner.

12- About “Helena Frith Powell” the London- UK, “Sunday Times” editor, it is also easily verifiable by reading her article on this link: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:lOA6cMKWcRYJ:helenafrithpowell.com/index.php%3Fs%3Drodolfo%2Bvalentin+helena+frith+powell+rodolfo+valentin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

If there is anything else I can do to proof each statement about Rodolfo Valentin I will promptly do.

Thank you all wikipedians! Justice all the way

I don't think you understand wikipedia. You have placed advertisements for your service on many pages. Dozens of different editors have erased them.
What you posted as sources are not serious sources
You do not understand trademark. It does NOT indicate anyone invented or originated a process. it is simply a brand name.
Several of photographs of your clients? you uploaded have already been removed by other editors for copyright problemsWalker42 00:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't see a problem keeping the following portion.
Hair infusion
Hair infusion is a trademarked procedure of Rodolfo Valentin, created to add length, volume and color to the hair. Synthetic or real human hair is used in the hair infusion process.
Perhaps we could add within the paragraph how it relates or is similar to hair prosthesis and/or hair extensions. — Dorvaq (talk) 13:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Walker (or anybody else for that matter), let me know if you have any issues against me adding back the suggested content. — Dorvaq (talk) 20:04, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I can not add the "Hair Infusion" part as the only trademark I can find on the United States Patent and Trademark Office website belongs to Jorge Maria Perez. There is no mention of Rodolfo owning the trademark. I know you've mentioned this person is Rodolfo's partner, but it's neither enough to claim Rodolfo owns the trademark simply because his partner does, nor is it enough to merit an entry on Rodolfo's page. — Dorvaq (talk) 16:35, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

I am removing this from the Good Articles candidates list because it is tagged as unsourced and possibly unnotable, and because it appears to be the subject of some debate. Once it is reformatted, sourced, expanded, and agreed-upon, it may be renominated. Chubbles 05:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Telemundo added

telemundo verification link: http://www.telemundo47.com/noticias/12931703/detail.html justice all the way 19:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)justice all the way

[edit] response from wikipedia editor assistant

Generally, linking to an "official site" of the subject of an article is indeed appropriate. We certainly do so for Microsoft and Ebay, so I see no reason not to do so here, so long as it's verifiable that the site in question is indeed the subject's own. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC) (Edit conflict.) The last edit from the user in question – Walker42 – was on 2007-04-18; unless there are new incidents, I am uncertain why this would be an issue. In any event, if you ever start edit warring, you can always go to WP:3RR. As for the external link, I went to check the site in question. I am afraid that it might not qualify under WP:EL. Please review the guidelines for acceptable external links. --Aarktica 21:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Found here: Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests. — Dorvaq (talk) 17:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] According to WP

What should be linked Articles about any organization, person, web site, or other entity should link to the official site if any. An article about a book, a musical score, or some other media should link to a site hosting a copy of the work if none of the "Links normally to be avoided" criteria apply. Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks) or other reasons. Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews.

Links to be considered —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Justice all the way (talk • contribs) 19:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Yes Justice, but that doesn't mean to link every review/interview you find on the web. — Dorvaq (talk) 19:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I am very confused about the constantly deletion of the link to Rodolfo Valentin official site which is: Official site. Other hairdressers, are having their "official site" listed in the external links. The "history" in one of them shows a note that reads: " primary source for this article, as required by WP:V an official policy of wikipedia, please do not delete".. Rodolfo Valentin article ALSO needs the official site external link as a "primary source" for that article. Specially having that sign on top of the article stating that the article needs "sources"... (You think that in wikipedia are some kind of favoritism?). I would like to hear If it is possible to restore the external link to the official site. Thank you! justice all the way 18:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)justice all the way

[edit] Also good sources

Hairstylist Rodolfo Valentin has also other good external links for sources of information. Hair Prosthesis site, offers an "step by step' on how a hair prosthesis is made. It has been listed as a "source" in the Hair Prosthesis article, but has been deleted. Also, regarding hairpieces, the site Hair Pieces site was listed in the Hairpiece article and also deleted. For last, the "Hair Infusion" hair extensions technique, is having a external source for information which is: Hair Infusion site, also deleted. ???justice all the way 18:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)justice all the way

[edit] movie

Rodolfo Valentin is also an actor. Last movie was done in 1999 as noted in The New York Times article- link: [1] It should be included. Ralicia 23:33, 30 April 2007 (UTC)ralicia

[edit] website

Frederic Fekkai and Vidal Sassoon have their website listed in the article and Jonathan Antinis having his selling products website also showing in the external links. Is there any specific reason why Rodolfo Valentin cannot have listed the website in the "box"?- Rodolfo website is a very good source for verification of several things!. I would like to hear from editors if they opposing to list http://www.rodolfovalentin.com / RV site in the "box"?- Ralicia 14:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)ralicia

See: Request for editor assistance regarding this same issue. — Dorvaq (talk) 16:23, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

Justice, it looks like you did a nice job on the sourcing. Can you please leave the tag up until I verify your references? I propose to remove it once I've done so. — Dorvaq (talk) 18:58, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Official website

I have re-added the official website of Rodolfo Valentin as per external links guidelines and as a result of a similar discussion here: Talk:Frédéric Fekkai.

Point number one of WP:EL#What should be linked states, "Articles about any organization, person, web site, or other entity should link to the official site if any." (Emphasis added). I don't believe there should be any contention as to whether or not the website is indeed the official website given its features and portrayal of Rodolfo Valentin.

Any remaining issues regarding the external link should be brought up for discussion on the WP:EL discussion page where they should be. — Dorvaq (talk) 16:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Good article'

I removed indications on this page that the article was nominated as a good article. I don't see it listed at Wikipedia:Good article candidates and I don't see any indication that it was listed or passed. Did I miss something?

For what it's worth, the article is much, much better than it was a month ago. I still think it reads like an ad and I wouldn't really call it a GA, but it's doing well. Thanks to everyone for your work on this. bikeable (talk) 18:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)