Talk:Robert F. Kennedy, Jr./Archive 2

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Article cleanup

Despite the efforts of linkspammers and personal attacks from anon users with no edit history, the article is now fully sourced. I've archived the old talkpage as it was not concerned so much with the article as it was with silly partisan bickering. Cheers. L0b0t 16:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


Irrelevant, biased information

The fact that RFK's grandfather was a bootlegger is not germane to information about his arrest for heroin possession, and seems to be an attempt to draw a specious line of causality between Joseph Kennedy's alcohol smuggling and Robert Jr.'s substance abuse. Additionally the editorializing regarding RFK's Rolling Stone article on the 2004 election should be excised as well. Perhaps l0b0t has a personal bone to pick with the Kennedy family, but this has no place in Wikipedia. Malodorous stank 18:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The only editorializing going on comes from the anons who keep removing sourced content. The "grandson of a bootlegger" and the "erroneous" are both statements of fact, any "specious line of causality" is being inferred by you. If you have any evidence that RFK Jr. is not the grandson of a bootlegger bring it to the talk page. If you have any evidence that the Democrats won the 2004 election and G.W. Bush is not the president, then bring it to the talk page. If you do not have a source that backs up your claim, then leave the article alone. Cheers. L0b0t 17:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

So why not "grandson of a U.S. Ambassador to Britain?" Why not "nephew of a U.S. President?" Aside from the fact that the edits to which you continue to revert contain typographical and grammatical errors -- "... the 30 -year-old grandson ..." should be "... Kennedy, then 30 and the grandson ..." -- this is clearly an injection of information which, while factually true, has absolutely no relevance to the facts at hand. Joseph Kennedy is not even mentioned by name in the article, rather, the word "bootlegger" links to his article. This is flat-out libel.

As for the "refutation" of Kennedy's RS article, your source cited is of an editorial nature and by no means settles the question with the level of certainty suggested by the tone and word choice. In fact, the wording in the Wiki article is taken verbatim from the subheadline of the Salon article. In fact the Salon piece contains passages like:

As Kennedy documents, in the months prior to the election, [Ohio's then-Secretary of State Kenneth] Blackwell issued a series of arbitrary and capricious voting and registration rules that could well have disenfranchised many people in the state.

Which could form the basis of a similarly inappropriate and slanted assessment vindicating Kennedy. Malodorous stank 18:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

You're right. Sorry I was being stubborn. Cheers. L0b0t 18:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Article Corrections

To "Homefill" the ardent Kennedy detractor who keeps resorting to erasing entries and edits that are factual and cited:

Regarding the heroin bust, you are riposting potentially libelous and unverified claims made in UK tabloid news. The AP, NYTimes and TIME, among others, all reported Kennedy left the plane before his arrest and was in his seat when the crew became aware of his condition, not on the bathroom floor. There was no "needle in his arm." Wiki is not the place for citing tabloid sensationalism.

Similarly, re: alleged royalty payments, this re-appearing description that begins "Although he speaks out on environmental issues" and then "making money in the very industry he rails against" these are not objective phrases and have no place in a Wiki entry. Share your opinions in the blogosphere, Wiki is for facts and objectivity.

Also, stop re-inserting the inaccurate description of the NRDC as a "lobbying group..." That's not accurate. You clearly have an anti-environmental agenda here, which doesn't belong on Wiki.

As L0b0t says below, this is not the place for 'silly partisan bickering' and 'personal attacks', post facts and cite them to primary sources. Have some respect for Wiki! Goshawks 08:04, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

The info about the arrest is sourced to a UK newspaper; that certainly passes muster with WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:BLP. Also, please assume good faith, it is rather insulting that you would make assumptions about another editor's "agenda". Your edits were reverted because you made wholesale changes without discussion on the talk page. Some of the sources you added were great and have been retained, some (blogs) are wholly inappropriate for an encyclopedia and have been removed. Also, you pine for "primary sources", please see here for the difference between primary, secondary, and tertiary sources and why we try to avoid using primary sources. As for the NRDC, do they lobby state and federal officials on behalf of environmental causes? Why yes they do, making them just as much a lobbying firm as the AARP, MPAA, or the Moral Majority. Does the NRDC work to strengthen existing environmental law and in some cases enact new legislation? Why yes they do. Does the NRDC work to restrict the uses to which private property may be put by its owners? Yes, yes they do that as well. Homefill 21:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


To Homefill:

What is the “good faith” sense of posting “unconscious in an airplane bathroom with a needle stuck into his arm” Homefill? What relevance does this offer to an encyclopedia entry?

Kennedy doesn’t hide his past struggles; he talks about them openly in books and interviews. Did it occur to you to post that he has been sober ever since, over 20 years now? I’m not trying to remove the heroin possession fact, so there’s no “whitewashing” going on here. Explain for us, what is your purpose then, to include sensational, potentially libelous, and unverified claims of unconscious lavatory floor needle-in-arm allegations.

Time magazine reported in 1983: “Traveling alone from Minneapolis to Rapid City, S. Dak., aboard a Republic Airlines Convair, Kennedy suddenly grew sick and dazed. Alarmed passengers near him reportedly summoned the flight attendant, who passed the word to the cockpit. The pilot radioed ahead to Rapid City to request that a paramedic and ambulance be on hand to meet the flight. When the plane landed, Kennedy was helped down the steps, but declined medical assistance.”

That was reported soon after the incident in 1983 (and is consistent with other news accounts directly concerned with the bust). Now contrast that with the revisionist sensationalism in the Times UK in January 2007 in an article about politics, (not a secondary source in a contemporary report about this specific incident).

Look closely[1] at the way the Times correspondent botches the details of the incident: “after he was found unconscious on the floor of a South Dakota airport toilet with a needle stuck in his arm.”

Can you find any contemporary account of this incident that claims that Kennedy was “unconscious” or “on the floor” or in an “airport toilet” (he was on the plane, remember? Not in the airport).

Your source is clearly not accurate. Do you concur that this Times UK story is not the best reference to rely on here?

Why did you remove my citation to the contemporary New York Times coverage then?

I suspect others will agree with me that there’s no “good faith” in your efforts here. Is it your intent to use this graphic imagery to slander the man? If not, then stop riposting this fictitious claim, please.


Regarding the NRDC, no, they are not a “lobbying firm” in fact. They hold 501(c)(3) status with the IRS as a non-profit organization. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c) As such, they are quite restricted in the amount of lobbying they can do and it’s not their primary function (which is public education on environmental issues, followed by occasional litigation to ensure enforcement of existing environmental laws).

In fact, this encyclopedia's creator holds the same designation, please look at the bottom of this page where it says “Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a US-registered 501(c)(3) tax-deductible nonprofit charity.” Would you call Wikimedia a “lobbying firm” Homefill?

As a 501c3, NRDC is nothing like the groups you list: AARP (a 501c4, donations are not tax-deductible), MPAA (a 501c6 trade association, donations are not tax-deductible), or the Moral Majority (which dissolved in 1989).

Agreed? So then, how about this: “a non-profit organization based in New York which works to strengthen existing environmental laws.”

That description is based on facts “easily verifiable by any reasonable, educated person,” not on agenda-driven, disparaging mischaracterizations like yours. Remember: “make no analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims.” Goshawks 15:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


2005/06 Appearances On The Sean Hannity Show

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has appeared on the syndicated Sean Hannity Radio Show in 2005 and 2006. Once, Sean's listeners heard Robert discuss an upcoming appearance before an environmental audience. Sean inquired as to Robert's mode of transportation between upcoming gigs and was told that Robert would be taking a private jet. Reacting to this light-heartedly, Sean expresses his opinion that telling an audience how important it is not to waste energy, and then immediately zooming off on a private jet, is incongruent behavior. But Robert has an explanation: he says he only rides along on private jets that happen to be going to his destination. Sean laughs out loud at the ridiculous remark - and he has kept the sound bite and replayed it many times since.

Jessemckay 10:24, 10 July 2007 (UTC)