Talk:Ripuarian Franks

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Ok I decend from the Riparian Franks and i'm tring to find out more about them can you guys help me. (unsigned comment by Burkem)

All I can say is: it would be very hard to prove descent from the Ripuarian Franks, but relatively easy to assume that if you have any West European ancestors, some were ancient Ripuarians. Srnec 01:38, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Just a note to explain my desire to stub this as a German article. The middle Rhine is in Germany not near Holland, hence a German history stub but I also added a Netherland history stub if they are the beginning of the Old Franconion language. The idea is to attract editors who know these areas and cultures. Goldenrowley 23:31, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Again: the Ripuarians did spoke proto-Dutch. But the proto-Dutch did not solely lived in the Netherlands. These Ripuari spread themselves over Austrasia and that also includes Luxemburg, Belgium and France. National history stubs rarely attract new editors and they give a false anachronistic view, for the Ripuari are Franks: They are not German or Dutch in the modern sence of the word.(proto-Dutch, or Old Dutch is still not Dutch).

I have placed the disputed tag on your edit for none of the claims of that mr. Perry from 1857 can be found in primary sources.

By the way: I have a dictionary Latin-Dutch and one Latin-English. None of those two dictionaries know the words "Ripaurii and Riparri", but even if you have one that does: the Franks we are talking about are known in the text as Ripuari. johanthon 10:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

That is an interesting view of stubs, for sure. We don't have a Frankish stub because its too narrow an interest but you don't like the Netherlands history stub or the German history stub. If you are unhappy with Mr. Perry's book, please present your primary sources. No one else has provided any other sources but I present a book which seems to me balanced and well written. Goldenrowley

Contrary to what you seem to read the Ripuarian Laws are a Primary source and this was mentioned in the text before your edits. Just check the history files. Since your edits ignore the time of their first appearance, your book from 1857 can't be balanced. Especially not since it has claims on Latin that can't be found in a Latin dictionary. johanthon 11:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh I see, I encourage you to add the source for "Ripuarian Laws" in the (just begun) reference section, as well as any other very good references you know of. I am not ignoring anything, I thought it meant it was the first historical reference but people could have lived there for centuries before they were "named" by some decree. Right? I have been doing much work on Wiktionary lately and Latin dictionaries do not contain every word and name that exists, in every dialect. They probably would not contain local or regional names for example.Goldenrowley 15:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Jonathan you are removing fact requests too quickly. The "first" of everything should be cited so I marked "The Ripuarians appear first in written history in the first half of the 7th century" as needing a citation. Obvious maybe to a historian like yourself but honestly I have no idea where to look up Riparian Laws. I looked on the other page linked, but that's not very helpful. Challenge you please to list your references. Goldenrowley 23:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

You are asking for a reference that can be found if one follows the link in the article. The link I provided, leads to a Wikipedia article that gives you a very good reference. If you want a translation than try "Laws of the Salian and Ripuarian Franks" by Theodore John Rivers. johanthon 00:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok so you just meant the Laws, while I was looking for a historian quote saying it was the "first" ever reference to the people which would be a separate issue. I've added more sources including Theodore John River and etc. I've corrected some spellings and phrases. I believe I've resolved the disputed elements, so far. Goldenrowley 04:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)