Talk:Ripon

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Is Ripon Cathedral a Cathedral or a Minster??

I don't know. The name seems to suggest it is a Cathedral, doesn't it. The following passage from Ripon Cathedral I think clarifies that it is what it sounds:

"The minster finally became a cathedral (the church where the Bishop has his cathedra or throne) in 1836, the focal point of the newly created Diocese of Ripon and Leeds - the first to be established since the Reformation."

In which case... should the sub-heading be 'cathedral' instead of 'minster'? Popexvi 13:40, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

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Either all the schools should have their addresses or none should. I vote none. Suicidal mongoose 17:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree; it's not particularly encyclopedic information. — Matt Crypto 18:01, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oldest City

I know Ripon is the oldest city in England, but cannot place an exact date and am unable to verify if it is the oldest in the UK. Can anyone enlighten the article as to this information?

Ripon was granted city status in 1836 to coincide with the creation of the Diocese of Ripon. See City status in the United Kingdom. Owain (talk) 20:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Quite so. There seems to be some confusion among the civic authorities themselves, who have celebrated anniversaries based on the supposed creation of the borough (not city) in AD 886. Which story apparently originates in the imagination of an eighteenth century antiquiarian. It all centres around the charter horn which was supposedly presented by Alfred the Great. See the following:

[1], [2], [3]

The whole controversy probably merits a mention (in particular the reluctance to allow carbon-dating in case it doesn't give the results they want!). Lozleader 09:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It has been listed in "The Top 10 of Everything" as being the oldest city. Popexvi 20:54, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

That's simply not true.

Going by the bishoprick argument, the first city would be Canterbury, obviously. It may or may not have the first or second dateable charter to survive: what we definitely do know is that our written records of Dark Ages England are non-existent at worst, generally terrible, and patchy at best. So equating "oldest known borough" with "oldest borough" is nonsense enough: further taking this to "oldest city" smacks of dishonesty on the part of civic authorities.

Aa random example of how hard this type of thing is, my home town, Leicester, is definitely a named roman settlement. It pops up a few times in contemporary records, but the origins of the Portmanmoot are obscure: tradition suggests they pre-date the Norman Conquest at least, but there is no dates, no charters. There's some evidence that the the city itself has probably been continously settled and populated from the establishment of it by the Romans, and Leicester was important enough to become the seat of a bishop in 680. It's very likely there was some form of municipal government then that evolved into the Portmanmoot: but we can't be sure. That's just one example. There are hundreds of other boroughs in the country with equally obscure origins. Ripon's corporation may well even pre-date the charter it has a record of: in this era charters had an actual effect in legal terms, and were frequently revoked and then reinstated (perhaps with a fine or different terms). Morwen - Talk 23:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It is true, Morwen. Look at The Top Ten of Everything 1999 by Russell Ash. The post in front was made by Popexvi 07:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

This maybe a mixup of the terms "town" and "city". It clearly isn't the oldest city as that status only dates from 1836! Owain (talk) 09:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It's got the oldest cathedral in Britain, by a certain definition (part of Ripon cathedral - the saxon crypt - is older than any part of any other British cathedral); but that's a different matter.... TSP 10:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

There is still a tendency for laymen to relate city status with the presence of a cathedral, so this may well be the answer to the confusion. Yorkshire Phoenix (talk) 10:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Three Bridges

I seem to remember that there are three bridges (the two old ones and the new bypass) over the river Ure located at Ripon and what about mentioning Ripon Racecourse. There is also the Canal, which I seem to remember was/is the most northerly part of the canal system. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.104.55.241 (talk) 13:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] City status

When I was growing up in Ripon, I was told that Ripon also became a city in recognition of its role as a supplier of spurs to royalty. Is this not the case? BuzzWoof (talk) 12:16, 16 January 2008 (UTC)