Talk:Rigas Feraios
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[edit] Comments
Nicolaos Maurogenis=Nicolae Mavrogheni, Wallachian Prince - not governor (he was Greek, as were most Phanariotes, but he is known by his Romanianized name). I'll change it to that. Dahn 19:52, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Should the bit about the political party be in a page about a Greek Poet? There could be a different page and also a disambiguation page. Vesiv 13:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Vlach
From Britannica:
"Toward the end of the 18th century Rigas Velestinlis (also known as Rigas Pheraios), a Hellenized Vlach from Thessaly, began not only to dream of, but actively to plan for, an armed revolt against the Turks."
- FrancisTyers · 22:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- Backed by the Djuvara references I provided. Dahn 23:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Extract from Greek WP
I translated this as best I could:
Στην ηλικία των είκοσι ετών σκότωσε στο Βελεστίνο έναν Τούρκο πρόκριτο και κατέφυγε στο Λιτόχωρο του Ολύμπου, όπου κατατάχθηκε στο σώμα των αρματολού θείου του Σπύρου Ζήρα. Αργότερα βρίσκεται στο Άγιο Όρος, φιλοξενούμενος του ηγούμενου της μονής Βατοπεδίου, Κοσμά.
Two questions:
- is θείου "famous" [in which case it's unnecessary], or does it imply Spiro Zera was working for the monks?
- Is that the best spelling of his name in English? JCScaliger 17:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Trushina
Why mention that one branch of his family was called Trushina? If there is a point here, it isn't being conveyed; if he used the name, it isn't mentioned. JCScaliger 17:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Agree! I was not able to find any information that a part of his family was called "Trushina". Certainly the name is not Greek. Either is wrongly translated or it is not backed up. The only source is Djuvara? The name should be in Greek “Trushinas” although I will have to see the Greek spelling to understand why. I think it should be deleted since I agree with JCScaliger that there isn’t any reason to mention it. It certainly was never used and as far as I know Rigas Fereos has never suggested a Vlach (Aromanian Greek) origin in any of his documents! If there isn’t any objection I will delete the reference to “Trushina” Furthermore I was not able to find any information in Greek historiography that he was Aromanian Greek. Can some one provide any help? (There is only one source from Britannica and Djuvara who happens to be an Aromanian himslef.) What is only known it that Vellestion/Vellestinon (Feres) had a number of Aromanian Greek population. Is that the only proof of his Aromanian Greek origin? What I’ve found about the Vlachs (Aromanian Greeks) of Velestino is the following passage by Nicholaos Georgiadis were he desribes Velestino during the years immediately following the liberation of the area from Ottoman dominion: "Velestino is inhabited today by some 300 families... every week, the inhabitants of the neighboring villages gather together in Velestino, there to celebrate a commercial fair. In the winter the inhabitants of Hagios Georgios and Velestino double in number, as a result of the influx of Vlachs from the northern mountain ranges of Epirus. Over the years, many of these established themselves in Velestino as permanent residents" The original lastname of Regas was “Κυριαζής”(Kyriazis) a typical Greek name deriving from the word Kyrios(lord) and not a delotic of Aromanian Greek descent! (Probable more Asia Minor Greek!) Seleukosa 16:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- If you find a source that says he was not Aromanian, not passages about Aromanians or Vlachs in general, and not personal deductions about "typical names", we can have both accounts in the text. Until then, the Djuvara (who happens to be a respected historian working from sources) gives details about Feraios' descent, and the Aromanian descent itself is backed by an additional source. Also note that the Trushina name was not used by him, but by a branch of his family. Removing adequately sourced information is vandalism, so I must urge you to reconsider. Dahn 20:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- As for other sources saying he was Aromanian/Vlach: [1]; Frederick Binkerd Artz, Reaction and Revolution, 1814-1832, p.251; Harold George Nicolson, Byron, the Last Journey, April 1823-April 1824, p.51; Demetrios Tziovas, Greece and the Balkans: Identities, Perceptions and Cultural Encounters, p.6; Wesley Marsh Gewehr, The Rise of Nationalism in the Balkans, 1800-1930, p.22, etc. Dahn 20:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I continiue to disagree about the passage about "Trushina" name. What part of his family was using it and were was is it mentioned? Please provide me the exact passage! (if it is possible) Of course the argument is still valid. The article is about a Greek hero and not about a branch of his family therefore I insist it should be deleted as completely irrelevant. As for the sources you have provide I will need some time to check them but yet what I can see is that "some have suggested that he had Aromanian/Greek descent.(from his mother side? From his father side?). But Regas was only expressing a national Greek identity and he have never mentioned any Vlach decent in his writings" Don’t worry Dahn I want delete anything! Only after discussion and exchange of arguments! I will certainly check the works of his biographers especially Peraivos" Seleukosa 22:47, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- The passage is basically what I added there, with the exception that he gives his name as Truşină (which is a modern Romanian rendition). He goes on to mention that his brother was named Ibu Riga Truşină (presumably, this is also a modern approximation). He cites two sources for this information (A. D. Xenopol and I. Caragiani).
- It is not "some who have suggested". It is a large number of sources from all sides of the divide, and they are not "suggesting", they are stating and proving, and are deducing many things from it. Logic imposes that this is not canceled by other sources "not saying it" - it would be canceled by sources saying that he was not of Aromanian/Vlach origin. As you will note, the article clearly indicates that he was primordially a Greek and identified himself as such (in fact, where it not for the identification, he probably would not be an article - since this was the basis of his entire career). Also, the last I heard, the prevailing theory among Greek historians (right as wrong as they may be) was that Aromanians are Greeks, so I cannot see why this is so controversial.
- I believe the info on Trushina should stay: it is a basic biographical detail. Even if it may not be relevant for Rigas, it does refer to his brother and extended family - such info is considered a basic requirement for the better articles on wiki. Btw, the sources seem to indicate that he was Vlach from both sides. Dahn 23:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I am doing some more reserch based on the information you provided! Soon I will have some more to add!! regards Seleukosa 21:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
