Talk:Richard Halliburton

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[edit] Request for expansion

I'd like to see this article expanded. I took some first steps by adding dates of birth and death, and listing his autobiography / collection of letters. I have two things I wasn't sure about:

  1. Since his date of death is not known (missing at sea), I used c. 23 March, that date being the last known communication with the ship, and likely somewhat close to the demise of those aboard. Is this acceptable?
  2. Where the author's name appears in the title of the work, as in Halliburton's collection of letters, is it repeated per WP style? I couldn't find any info at a casual glance. -- Tetraminoe 05:52, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think having the date death as an approximate date is fine. In my opinion, you've also cited the collection of letters correctly, if "Richard Halliburton" is the name of the book and the listed author's name. Sayeth 16:00, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
All looks fine to me, too. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:05, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fact or fiction?

Isn't there now some doubt about the authenticity of some of his stories? I've started here before exploring elsewhere on the web. Martynz

I've never heard any expressed, and certainly some of the more remarkable stories (e.g. swimming the Panama Canal) were easily verified. I know that he was pretty consistent about photo-documenting mountain ascents, etc. On the other hand, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he took some literary license in describing a conversation, but what travel writer doesn't? -- Jmabel | Talk 22:33, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Princeton Graduate?

The reference at http://www.memphismagazine.com/backissues/april2001/coverstory2.htm states he graduated from Princeton in 1921, the article here says he dropped out -- which is it? 69.174.71.38 19:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know offhand, but if someone has a copy of The Royal Road to Romance, it should say. I don't have one handy at present. - Jmabel | Talk 01:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I just found my copy {autographed to boot} of New Worlds to Conquer - but am walking out the door to do a show on KLDK. He might say something there. Carptrash 01:35, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Well he diesn't say in this book, but everything I've looked at suggests that he did graduate in 1921 from Princeton. So I'll probably just make that change. Carptrash 04:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay. The article says that he droped out, which I think he did, but he then returned and probably graduated. The article is true in-so-far as it goes, there is just more to the story. Carptrash 04:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Doubtless someone who cares could get a straight answer from Princeton. - Jmabel | Talk 02:14, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

From The Royal Road to Romance - "June and graduation.... I was at liberty now to unleash the wild impulses within me, and follow wherever the devil lead. Away went cap and gown..." --Think Fast 02:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Can you give an edition and page number so that we can cite that? - Jmabel | Talk 05:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I am late to the table, but I have to say that Halliburton used even more artistic licence than most travel writers. Just because he uses a certain form of words in his travelogues does not mean that things happened exactly that way. The first chapter of his first book is mad with poetry; fact mattered less to him. BrainyBabe (talk) 19:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sexuality

Recently Category:LGBT writers from the United States was added to the article. I've removed it, pending citation. There is nothing currently cited (or even stated) in the article to bear out any claim about Halliburton's sexuality. I'm pretty familiar with his writing and don't remember it ever touching on sexuality, his own or anyone else's. Where does this come from? - Jmabel | Talk 18:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought the article was fine as it was, and did not see a need to make an insertion about his sexuality. Actually, for someone of that time period, the ending sentence "He never married" could even be interpreted as code to say that he was gay. While else mention his marital status one way or another, especially as a tacked-on, final sentence?
I wanted (casual) readers of the article to judge Halliburton by his work, not by his sexuality. As a popular travel writer in the 1930's, mentioning his homosexual liaisons in his books would certainly not have been a wise career move - therefore you won't find any. Given the taboos against homosexuality that have only recently begun to erode, there is generally - and VERY deliberately - not much evidence left behind to prove that any historical figure was not straight. It is always hard with lists of LGBT individuals; some people perceive including someone as defamation of that individual - to quiet them, nothing short of a mountain of evidence will do - in this case, the article would have been reduced to a dissertation about Richard Halliburton's queerness. I'm NOT saying that you fit in this category, from your diligence in taking care of this article; I truly think you simply want to see it kept accurate.
Some evidence exists for Richard Halliburton's queerness (I use the word because I do not know if he was gay or bisexual) because he had a relationship with silent film star Ramón Novarro, one of the few actors of the period who refused to hide his homosexuality. There is a good telling of their relationship in "Ramón Novarro: A Biography of the Silent Film Idol" ISBN: 0786400994. Richard Halliburton was a fixture of sorts in the gay community of Laguna Beach, one of the first gay enclaves in California. His house by West Beach (which even today is the local gay beach) was known as "Hangover House." I have even heard that the crew of men sailing with him in the junk from China to the World's Fair was primarily gay. Udibi | Talk 07:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Quite familiar with Ramón Novarro. We should explicitly cite that source. It is worth a line in the article. A liaison with Novarro would be notable, if not exactly rare. Given Halliburton's generally macho image, it seems to me that queerness, well-cited, rates a mention. Obviously "I have even heard" is not a citation; so just which parts of what you just wrote are citable? & can you give specific citation (pages?) - Jmabel | Talk 18:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's the most relevant passage from André Soares, Beyond Paradise: The Life of Ramon Novarro, St. Martin's Press, 2002. ISBN 0-312-28231-1.

p.163: …Novarro spent much of… late 1930 in the company of… Richard Halliburton, whom he probably men through Pancho Barnes [(Florence Barnes)]. … [In] The Royal Road of Romance (sic)… he narrates some of his notorious capers—though carefully omitting any mention of his sexual orientation and frequent libidinous escapades.
Some reports have contended that Novarro and Halliburton were more than just pals, but there is no indication of an affair in Halliburton's lettters to their common gay friend Noël Sullivan, even though the adventurer was generally quite open about his romantic and sexual romps in his correspondence. …"

At p.302, Soares asserts that Paul Mooney, who disappeared with Halliburton on his fatal sea voyage, was his lover.

Also, a note on p.343 (endnote related to p.163) refers to Michael Blankenship, "A Fellow Traveller", The Advocate, July 18, 1989 for discussion of Halliburton's sexuality. He says that Ellenberger's Ramon Novarro and "the gay press" have asserted a sexual relationship between Halliburton and Novarro, which he sees as possible but unproven. And apparently much of Noël Sullivan's correspondence with Halliburton has been published. - Jmabel | Talk 05:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

All of which makes "Halliburton never married" look a bit coy. - Jmabel | Talk 07:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Discussions of Halliburton's personal life have reached the stage of a debate on the pages of the article itself. I am sure everybody means well, so let's all step back and look for citeable quality data on the subject. Agreed? Bigturtle 17:59, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Again, here is where I had this last December:

[1]

This was referenced to André Soares, Beyond Paradise: The Life of Ramon Novarro, St. Martin's Press, 2002. ISBN 0-312-28231-1. p.163. Despite someone else's effort to argue this in the article, the statement that this is clear from his correspondence was Soares', not mine. Soares does indeed doubt other authors' claims that Halliburton and Novarro were lovers, but that is neither here nor there: being gay or bisexual does not mean that he had a sexual relationship with every one of his gay or bisexual male friends. I invite anyone to check the source: Soares leaves no doubt at all that Halliburton had sex with men, he only questions whether he had sex with Novarro.

On this basis, I am restoring my earlier version. - Jmabel | Talk 19:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The classic Halliburton quote

I live next door to Rhodes College, home of the Halliburton Bell Tower and the Halliburton Rare Book Collection and went to the same high school as Halliburton. I have always been a casual fan but do not know where to document his most famous quote, demonstrating the epitome of reckless, early-20th century, amateur-adventurer insouciance. Supposedly the last communication from the junk was Halliburton himself radioing/telegraphing: "Southerly gales, squalls, lee rail under water, wet bunks, hard tack, bully beef, wish you were here . . . instead of me."

If confirmed, I believe this signally defines the man. It is, however, so good as to be equally likely a posthumous embellishment.

Scorlew 23:56, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date of disappearance

Both 23 and 24 March seem to abound in Google as the relevant date. Could it be that the last radio message was received on 23 March in the USA but it was actually 24 March where Halliburton was because he was beyond the International Date Line? -- JackofOz 06:43, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Memphis Magazine article

If someone wants to expand this, there's an article from Memphis Magazine in 1977 that might be useful.

  • Guy Townsend, "Richard Halliburton: The Forgotten Myth", Memphis Magazine, originally published August 1977, reprinted April 2001.

It's no longer on Memphis Magazine's own site, but it can be found on the Internet Archive.

It appears to be a citable source for a quotation already in the article, and I will use it as such. - Jmabel | Talk 21:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree it looks good and have added it to the further reading list. BrainyBabe (talk) 16:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Buzzle.com?

The article on Buzzle.com linked blindly from the references section doesn't look to me like something I would presume was a reliable source. It seems to have his date of birth wrong (our article previously reflected this apparent error). It's written by someone whose bio doesn't suggest any reason to think he'd be more authoritative than a random Wikipedian.

I'd suggest dropping the link. And I still think it would be a good idea for someone to work with some solid sources and do a good job of actually citing for what we say here. - Jmabel | Talk 23:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I will remove the link. BrainyBabe (talk) 15:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the image of Halliburton

at the top of the article appears in India Speaks, so was taken by 1933. Carptrash (talk) 16:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of gay material

I disagree with the removal of the following:

As he matured, he became bisexual, as observed by at least one traveling companion. Halliburton kept his sexual orientation secret from his public and his parents, who longed for grandchildren. His correspondence and his relations clearly offer this view of his orientation.[2] He was a friend, and may have been a lover, of one of the first openly gay film stars, Ramon Novarro.[3] A biographer of Novarro asserts that Halliburton chose Paul Mooney as crew for his fatal final voyage because the pair were lovers.[4]

The edit summary said these sources were unreliable. I have not seen them, but they seem like serious biographies. I do not want to get into an edit war, so perhaps someone with access to the texts could check these. BrainyBabe (talk) 06:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The edit and demand for more proof seems little more than thinly-veiled homophobia. The anonymous editor also chose to delete references to Halliburton's Laguna Beach house and his two gay roommates (one of whom was his editor). A podcast by Ted Williams about the house can easily be accessed at http://twls.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=190016#. How many citations does Mr/Ms "76.217.117.156" want? In the course of a couple of short paragraphs, there are a total of 3 different sources cited to substantiate Halliburton's queerness. "Horizon Chasers: Lives and Adventures of Richard Halliburton and Paul Mooney" by Gerry Max, and Playing the Game: The Homosexual Novel in America by Roger Austen could potentially also be added to the list.Udibi (talk) 04:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I suspect you are right, but one never knows another's motivation and I do my best to assume good faith. Would you be able to add those two sources to "Further reading"? Thanks. -- Oh, and I am delighted that Hangover House now has its own article! BrainyBabe (talk) 08:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)