Wikipedia talk:Requests for bureaucratship/Nihonjoe 2

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Contents 1 Edit summary 2 This should be a good measure of whether RFB is broken or not

[edit] Edit summary

Nihonjoe's edit stats using "wannabe Kate" tool as of 19:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC):

Category talk:  109
Category:       402
Help talk:      1
Help:   4
Image talk:     30
Image:  352
Mainspace       11268
Portal talk:    11
Portal: 44
Talk:   4110
Template talk:  89
Template:       591
User talk:      1754
User:   843
Wikipedia talk: 1073
Wikipedia:      2564

avg edits per page      2.06
earliest        00:20, 21 September 2005
number of unique pages  11282
total   23245

2005/9  62      
2005/10         672     
2005/11         844     
2005/12         820     
2006/1  1112    
2006/2  923     
2006/3  1970    
2006/4  2898    
2006/5  1566    
2006/6  1402    
2006/7  1366    
2006/8  1658    
2006/9  993     
2006/10         1650    
2006/11         556     
2006/12         1368    
2007/1  1587    
2007/2  535     
2007/3  901     
2007/4  362     
(green denotes edits with an edit summary (even an automatic one), red denotes edits without an edit summary)


Mainspace
161     High School! Kimengumi
112     The Generations Network
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65      Tesshō Genda
63      GameTZ.com
38      Yoko Minamino
38      Tales from Earthsea (film)
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Talk:
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14      Linksys iPhone
14      Sea of Japan
14      Editing of anime in American distribution
13      The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
12      Tales from Earthsea (film)

Category talk:
25      Japan stubs
5       WikiProjects
3       Wikipedia requested photographs in Japan
2       Companies in Fukui Prefecture
2       Geibi Line
2       Aomori Prefecture
2       Aichi Prefecture
2       Akita Prefecture
2       Ehime Prefecture
2       Candidates for speedy deletion
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2       Empire of Japan
2       Japan
         
Category:
8       Japan-related projects
5       Japan stubs
5       Anime by studio
5       Japan
5       Government of Tokyo
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4       Science fiction conventions
4       Companies in Fukui Prefecture
4       Japanese education stubs
4       Geibi Line
4       Japan-related articles by quality
4       Anime character designers
3       Wikipedians interested in Japan
3       Beverage companies of Japan
3       WikiProject Japan

Help:
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Image:
4       RusudenMessageShow-AnimeStarHen-CDcover.jpg
4       Daylight saving time004006.png
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Image talk:
5       Yamauchi.jpg
4       Yoko ueno.jpg
2       YasuiKunihiko-81Produce.jpg
2       Daylight saving time004006.png

Portal:
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6       Japan/Things you can do
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4       Speculative fiction/Description
4       Speculative fiction
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2       List of portals
2       Star Wars/Star Wars News

Portal talk:
2       Speculative fiction
2       Dragonlance/Title
2       Dragonlance
2       Anime and Manga

Template:
265     Newest Japan-related articles
42      Newest articles about trains in Japan
17      Speculative fiction
17      WikiProject Japan
13      WPJ
12      Studio Ghibli Films
11      WikiProject Japan/to do
9       WPJ-Barnsensu
8       Geibi Line
7       Gaijin tarento
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3       Studio Ghibli Films
2       Japan Railway Line
2       WMT
2       Geibi Line
2       TOC float left
2       TOC float right
2       WPJ

User:
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20      Nihonjoe/Samurai
18      Nihonjoe/Kawaii
15      Nihonjoe/Test
14      Nihonjoe/Tsukue
12      Nihonjoe/Glossary of Japanese film credit terms
5       Nihonjoe/Translation of Japanese film credits into English
5       Silence/Archive0008
4       Nihonjoe/TestB
3       Alai/JAnime-V-actors
3       Nihonjoe/Test1
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3       RPH

User talk:
652     Nihonjoe
22      Taeguk Warrior
12      Cool Cat
10      Miborovsky
10      Haeleth/Archive 1
10      Fg2
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7       Paul August
6       Good friend100
6       Squilibob
5       TakuyaMurata
5       Dollarfifty
5       69.24.191.201

Wikipedia:
165     WikiProject Japan
85      Requested articles/Japan
84      WikiProject Deletion sorting/Japan
54      Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
52      Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)
32      Administrator intervention against vandalism
28      Requests for bureaucratship/Nihonjoe
25      Requested moves
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24      Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Japan articles by quality statistics
23      Arbitration Committee Elections December 2006/Candidate statements/Questions for Nihonjoe
22      Suggestion box
20      Articles for deletion/Old
18      Articles for deletion/MyFamily.com, Inc.
17      WikiProject Japan/Importance

Wikipedia talk:
250     WikiProject Japan
222     Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)
111     WikiProject Anime and manga
38      WikiProject Trains in Japan
36      Counter-Vandalism Unit
31      Requests for mediation/Japanese Macrons
13      Requests for adminship
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10      WikiProject Japan/Collaboration
8       Translation into English/Japanese
8       WikiProject Japanese mythology
8       Requested articles/Japan
7       Proposed policy on userboxes

Block log: 78
Delete log: 3235
Protect log: 114

[edit] This should be a good measure of whether RFB is broken or not

For what it's worth, I as a crat wouldn't have advocated the promotion of Danny due to the strength of the opposition, but I can't in all good conscience oppose an RFB candidate who says they would have promoted him, provided they can justify the decision. Nihonjoe has said he agreed with the procedure and would have abided by the consensus of the crats' discussion, which is good enough for me. A number of oppose !votes here seem to be solely based on the possibility that the user would make one decision they disagree with, not that he would do the job badly. From what I can see, Nihonjoe is a well respected contributor, and there's little to no evidence that he would make a bad bureaucrat. With Essjay's departure, we need another crat, and imho we should never turn down willing, qualified volunteers. In conclusion, then, I feel that if this RFB fails it's a very good sign that the system is broken, because we're not likely to get many better candidates than this editor. --kingboyk 11:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

There's probably no good admin who'd make a bad bureaucrat; so long as they're interested in the RfA process, have a good eye for consensus, and a level head, there's no reason to not have another. See also the common criteria I listed here. People who oppose because of one incident are forgetting that Nihonjoe did not make that decision. This should be no big deal. Majorly (hot!) 12:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

RfB isn't promoting any bureaucrats, whether or not that means its broken is up for debate. I think it probably is broken. I just hope someone can prove me wrong. --Deskana (fry that thing!) 12:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

We're slowly coming up to a year long gap of no new 'crats. Next month will be the longest time without a promotion ever. Majorly (hot!) 12:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

From what I've seen, a lot of them were sunk by the "we don't need any more" opiners. Frankly, if there are any opinions in RfB or RfA that should be ignored, it is "we don't need any more". We do. Even if we don't right this instant, people are going to depart, reducing the supply, and hopefully we are going to grow, increasing the demand. I do think, however, that it will be nearly impossible to get anyone to 90%; either people participate in WT:RfA and are sunk for what they say, or they don't and are sunk for not saying enough. GRBerry 02:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Especially if you talk percentages. There's a camp of people here who go ballistic anytime anything related to numbers is mentioned in connection to RfA. It's somewhat frustrating when people don't see the connection between the number of people expressing an opinon one way or the other, and consensus. They are so blinded by an objection to any mention of votes and percentages that they can't see past it to what is actually being said. I begin to wonder if anyone will ever again achieve the necessary consensus to pass RfB in the current climate. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:39, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Unless they're one of a handful of our most respected contributors (and I mean literally a handful, i.e. not the likes of you (no offence) and I), they'd probably be wasting their time even trying. Now, who wants to propose RFB reform?? :) --kingboyk 13:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

There's a crowd that goes ballistic if you mention percentages as a way of closing RfAs and a crowd that goes ballistic if you say you'd not use percentages. Broken? Nah. --Deskana (fry that thing!) 16:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Mackensen stated he would not use perecentages, he was opposed for it. Nihonjoe, myself and other recent RfB candidates have stated we'd use percentages. We were opposed for it. So, now that the "no need for more" argument is dying out, we have another catch-22 situation. Majorly (hot!) 16:17, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

But what are we going to do about it? --Deskana (fry that thing!) 20:23, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I know! All admins are bureaucrats! Been suggested before, why not try again eh? Majorly (hot!) 20:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. I quite like that idea. Imagine how much of a fit "no need for more bureaucrats" people would have when we have 1000+ :-p --Deskana (fry that thing!) 20:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Another potential problem is the crats themselves. I've seen some RfBs sink because a crat would drop in and say, "We don't need more; the three of us shove each other to promote RfAs", leading to a parade of opposes "per ____". We should ban crats from voting on RfBs. — Deckiller 20:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's the link: Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship/Archive_14#Poll_on_making_all_sysops_bureaucrats I think we should move this to the main RfA talk page. Majorly (hot!) 20:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Deckiller: You're right, I've seen that happen too. I think that may be a good idea. Majorly: Lets do it. Lets have a discussion though, not a poll? --Deskana (fry that thing!) 20:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I vote we do that :) Be prepared for the opposition to it... Majorly (hot!) 20:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, I expect it will get nowhere but it's probably worth a try and maybe another good idea will come out of it. --Deskana (fry that thing!) 20:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

All admins as crats might be a bit much, in terms of numbers and in terms of "safety". I'd be happier with a proposal for "all admins of (say) 1 year tenure". I.e. serve as an admin for a year, get the crat flag. However, both of these proposals are vulnerable to the obvious problem: the more crats there are, especially if we're talking hundreds or over a thousand, the more chance there is for a "robdurbar" incident. We don't want Willy on Wheels being given the sysop flag! :) --kingboyk 22:52, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

There's at least two ways of dealing with a broken system. 1) Change it (see above). 2) Boycott it. --kingboyk 22:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)