Talk:Regietheater

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Contents 1 Don Carlos or Un ballo in maschera? 2 Doubts about the title of this article 3 Cleanup tag removed 4 POV? 5 No mention of Walter Felsenstein?

[edit] Don Carlos or Un ballo in maschera?

"British production of Verdi's 'Don Carlos' that at one point imported toilet cubicles"

Is this not the famous ENO production of Un ballo in maschera??

Vivaverdi 01:13, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes I think so. I will change it. Kleinzach 10:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doubts about the title of this article

We are discussing the title on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera. - Kleinzach 10:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

As there have been no objections posted I have changed the title to Regietheater. This term may not be familiar to many English readers but it is explained in the article. - Kleinzach 09:13, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup tag removed

I have removed the cleanup tag after wikifying, cleaning up and renaming the article. I hope that is acceptable to all. - Kleinzach 09:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

I'll admit I'd never heard this term before I came across this article...but I was a little taken aback at how POV it sounded. I seriously doubt that this would ever be in an encyclopedia: "Stories also circulate of 'celebrity' producers who, though they cheerfully impose their 'interpretations' upon other people's operatic masterworks, are not actually able to follow musical scores and are observed in the theatre to be working from CD booklets in which the composer's original stage-directions are not reproduced." This is completely anecdotal and unsourced, and the use of cutesy little quote marks doesn't make it any better. It sounds like some sort of witty columnist, not a work of scholarship. The use of adverb phrases like "flatly disregarded" and "cheerfully impose" are inherently POV. Now, if there were any sources, at all, it would be much better. -Randomglitter 09:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. I had never seen such a 'blatant' (to quote an original author here) example of POV on Wikipedia before. Completely unscientific hatespeak. Since this IS indeed an encyclopedia and not a dicussion forum, we must maintain a neutral scientific behaviour. I have carefully tried to disarm some of the mines buried here. -- megA 17:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

IMO the definition at the beginning of the article is still problematic: "refers to the modern (mainly post-World War II) practice of allowing a director or producer such freedom in devising the way a given opera is staged that not only may the composer's specific stage directions (where supplied) be disregarded, but also major elements of geographical location, chronological situation, casting and plot." .

My own definition of Regietheater would be simply be 'director-oriented' or 'director-dominated' (i.e.rather than conductor, singer or administrator dominated). Some directors, such as Kupfer or Götz Friedrich have been meticulous in their attention to the original text while being original and inventive in their staging. -- Kleinzach 00:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Ideally, it is a co-operation between conductor and director. What I also miss is that "Regietheater" is not limited to opera. In spoken theater, it has become so customary that it is already taken as granted and no longer mentioned at all. (Has anyone seen a recent production of "Romeo and Juliet" that is not staged as a rock musical?) -- megA 10:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No mention of Walter Felsenstein?

The other main problem with this article is the absence of important information on the development of opera direction in Germany. Walter Felsenstein, rather than Wieland Wagner was really the father of Regietheater. Incidentally the Felsenstein article defines Regietheater as " productions in which drama values come before musical ones" -- Kleinzach 03:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Felsenstein is rather credited as father of "Musiktheater" (which fits the description in his article better that "Regietheater"). He usually left the opera in the original setting and historical context, but emphasized the importance of psychological and dramatic staging over pure musical performance. Later, his students Götz Friedrich and Harry Kupfer took directing to a new level by bringing the historical drama into a modern context. So he might be called "Father of Musiktheater" or "Forefather of Regietheater". Actually, it's a long developement that started with abstract stagings in the 1920/30es. -- megA 10:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the Musiktheater article in the German Wiki would be worth translating. -- Kleinzach 13:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)