Talk:Raymond Keene

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Someone knowledgeable desperately needs to rewrite this. In the chess world, nearly nobody is as universally despised as Keene —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.10.74.84 (talk • contribs)

Contents 1 Zombie diaries? 2 agreed - there are scandals involving fraud and ghost-written books 3 Anonymous editor 4 Allegations of Fraud

[edit] Zombie diaries?

There is nothing to support this at the IMDB page for zombie diaries, and every reference to his alledged voice over work appears to have been copied from this article. Additionally, the user who added it, Mike Bartlett, appears to have added credible sounding but unverifiable and possibly fabricated information to the article on Schrodinger's cat. The zombie diaries contribution appears to be in the same vein.

Also, "Michael Bartlett" is listed as the producer of "the zombie diaries" at IMDB.

Hello - I am in indeed the writer, director of The Zombie Diaries. The information on Raymond Keene and Julian's voice-over has been sent to IMDb and will appear in 2-3 weeks. This is not malicious information!!!

Please contact Raymond on RDKOBE at aol dot com if you require proof until the imdb info goes live. When it does I will be putting the reference into the Wikipedia page. Raymond and Julian agreed to help out on the film after I helped them technically with the DVD remaster of "12 best games of chess" MikeBartlett (Keene's email obscured from spam bots by Rocksong 11:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC))

[edit] agreed - there are scandals involving fraud and ghost-written books

This is true, Raymond Keene is known to have defrauded his brother-in-law and several partners of tens of thousands of dollars and sabotaging their business.

As a chess second he has also failed to perform on a number of occassions.

Finally some of his books have been ghostwritten by others.

This issues need to be covered (with references) by someone who has through knowledge of Raymond Keene, although there are articles in chess magazines I believe.

Currently the article reads like a thinly veiled attempt at self-promotion.

--I 14:23, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

For petes sake, who wrote this, Keene himself! Readers desiring an insight into the real Raymond Keene should take a look at the following http://www.chesscenter.com/kingpin/Kingpin/raylevy.htm I agree, that the truth would lay somewhere in between these two accounts, but a little more research would show that the latter article is much closer than this waffle that Wikipedia has been duped into as allowing as a factual account of Raymond Keene. Wikipedia is much better than this! Please fix this gross error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.134.203.244 (talk • contribs)

A person asserts that Raymond Keene is universally despised but provides no evidence. And, by looking at the activity of chessgames.com, the opposite seems to be the case.

There are accusations concerning fraud but no one here has given an example where Mr. Keene has been convicted of said offense.

No evidence provided of the allegation that some of his books are ghost written; and even if some were, so what?

No evidence provided how Mr. Keene "failed" as a chess second.

A highly respected grandmaster and chess writer, Larry Evans, seems not to have a problem with Mr. Keene. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.38.205.230 (talk • contribs)

Oh that is rich, Larry Evans is highly respected? By whom? If anything, his Wikipedia entry seems to suffer from the same problem as this one. See for instance The facts about Larry Evans. I just added a reference there, wonder how long it will survive. This entry about Keene needs a lot of work. --KarlFrei 16:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anonymous editor

Hmm, there's been a lot of edits by an anonymous editor lately, who seems to know a lot of detail about Keene's career... Rocksong 23:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Allegations of Fraud

Guys,

Someone keeps posting nonsense about 'allegations of fraud' which link to articles which themselves are opinions only. I can't allow this libelous material to keep appearing. I have been contacted by Mr Keene who has expressed his concern over this, and I will not allow Wikipedia to be subject to any more libelous material. Anyone who continues to do so will have their material deleted.

-Mike Bartltt MikeBartlett 09:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

But the allegations have been made publicly, haven't they, and published in respected chess publications? Rocksong 10:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, I (the "someone" above) don't see a problem with referring to Kingpin. Additional references would of course be welcome. Some other magazines or newspapers must have written something about these allegations? By the way, do you have a reference for claiming that Keene is "respected", as you added in your last entry? --KarlFrei 11:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, he is employed as a columnist by The Times (that in itself shows respect for his chess knowledge), was recently interviewed by Garry Kasparov for his new book "Revolution in the 70s" on Opening Theory (respect for his chess analysis from the greatest world champion ever), and is widely respected throughout the chess community which can be seen on the website chessgames.com where he regularly contributes to games and answers questions from the general public. MikeBartlett 00:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the allegations, I'd rather see a response from Keene, somewhere on the web other than Wikipedia where other people can't edit it (such as his home page or one of his columns). Then the article could say something like (taking the Levy issue as an example):

"David Levy alleges that he was defrauded by Keene (then link to Levy's allegations). But Keene responds that he has done nothing wrong and remains widely respected in the chess community (then a link to Keenes' response)."

That I think would be balanced. Honestly I have no idea of the truth or otherwise of the allegations and I certainly have nothing against Keene. But he does arouse a lot of strong opinions in the chess community and the article cannot simply ignore the controversies he's been involved in (not just the Levy issue). Rocksong 02:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I will speak to Wikipedia and Mr Keene about this, to see if this is suitable. MikeBartlett 17:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Nobody would wish Ray Keene to be unjustly accused of wrong doing. Some of the allegations made are certainly noteworthy, and with referencing, and careful maintained neutrality, they seem to have a place in this article. If a balanced picture is maintained this does not reduce to slagging off Ray.Threatening to delete users material is not appropriate behaviour on wikipedia MikeBartlett, and I would ask you to refrain from that.--ZincBelief 11:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

This issue should not be taken further, except in the event of reporting any definite conclusion. That there was a dispute is generally agreed. Let's stop there. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)