Talk:Ramana Maharshi

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More information about this article... The following comments have been left for this page: Need more info on Ramana Maharshi's life Need more in-depth discussion of his teaching, other than just quotations (most of which can be moved to wikiquotes) (edit)

Ramana Maharshi was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Delisted version: August 8, 2006

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Contents 1 Action plan: spruce up Ramana Maharshi article 2 Is the translation correct? 3 Too many quotes 4 Is Help Welcome in editing this entry? 5 Synonyms? 6 Wrong ISBN Number 7 Concerning the reversion of my recent edit, in which I wrote that Sri Ramana's guru was/is Arunachala

[edit] Action plan: spruce up Ramana Maharshi article

The article has had a momentous accretion of information! I would be working on creating separate articles to keep the Ramana Maharshi article smaller.

1. Create separate articles for longer sections
2. Remove weasel words and introduce fact based approach and avoid regional over tones
--Naresh (talk) 19:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is the translation correct?

In the article Sri Ramana Maharshi's mother's tomb/samadhi, Matrubhuteswara, is translated as "Mother who was easwara". Now, there are many words in Sanskrit and Hindi which use the term Ishwara (God) in compound words in the form of Eswara. Might the end of Matrubhuteswara point to Ishwara? --Tellervo 11:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I think Iswara and eashwara/eshwara refer to the same thing, as you suggest. Some of the terms used here have multiple spellings translated into common english which may confuse the reader. Perhaps "Mother who was easwara (Iswara)" would be more helpful.--Dseer 17:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, she died as an enlightened being. She had become one with Ishwara. I will go and change the translation in the text. --Tellervo 18:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I am at present perusing David Godman's "The Power of the Presence" vol.I. There I have found helpful facts about the meaning of "Matrubuthesvara" as well as to the spelling of the name of Bhagavan's mother. N.R. Krishnamurti Aiyer writes, Ramana Maharshi's mother's tomb was named "Matrubhuteswara" [Siva (God) in the form of a mother] because a Siva lingam was put on its top. Siva lingams, which abounds in Indian temples, are always altar's of Siva worship.

Ramana Maharshi's mother's name was Azhagammal. And as a last topic, Kavyakantha Ganapati Muni. Yes the names are in this order, but the honorific Sri is always put first.--Tellervo 15:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC) I am doubtful about where Sri is put.

Maybe it has to do with the total lack of order in things/books/whatever Indian.--Tellervo 16:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)Tellervo 16:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Tellervo, These are not actually typos ... there is more than one correct way to spell some of these words. Matrubuthesvara and Mathrubuthesvara are both correct, and you will find both in the literature of Sri Ramanasramam. Likewise, "Alagammal" is not incorrect (and nor is the version you put in place of this). Please see http://sriramanamaharshi.org/mother.html -- this is the official website's page on Sri Ramana's Mother, and "Alagammal" is used there.

On the other hand, the "Sri" must come after "Bhagavan" in Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi ... there are not two correct versions of this. (Though "Sri Bhagavan" is correct. :-)) (Iddli 22:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC))

Tellervo, please stop correcting typos which are not typos, without discussion. Patience is limited. The spellings in the sources used need to be retained for clarity to the reader, although alternates can be added if you want. Differences between spellings across regions of India are not sufficent reason to make these changes. As for Sri Bhagavan, that is not found in the primary sources, the title is Bhagavan Sri. More changes of this type that do not take the above into account and which avoid discussion will be summarily reverted. --Dseer 05:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I cannot see, why you are so upset by what I consider some small changes in spelling of some words. I have openly discussed the spellings on this page, just read above! I have not yet found a language, where there are different, mutually exclusive spellings of a word that are both correct. You two do not seem to agree even among yourselves about whether it is correct to write Sri Bhagavan or Bhagavan Sri! You have drifted far from the principle of courteous cooperation, on which work in Wikipedia ought to be based. I just tried to be helpful and cooperate. Your nerves are truly frayed! I will keep away from this site.--Tellervo 16:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC) Tellervo 05:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course there are different "correct" spellings, for example, Siva or Shiva, in English, both of which can be sourced. Use the one in the source but include other options if it is important enough, that is all that is asked. And be more careful in your research, for example, the word you selected for Benares is not even the most common and merely referred to another article. Sri Bhagavan is simply not correct, other editors agree, since Bhagavan (God) goes before honorific Sri. Sorry you feel that way. --Dseer 01:36, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

This source should resolve the spelling issue once and for all, confirming what I've said: [1].--Dseer 01:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too many quotes

This is an encyclopedia article. Can we just state the facts and remove the extra chatter? --1000Faces (talk) 17:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Feel free to summarize any quotes... I may take a peak and some myself. Hohohahaha (talk) 17:20, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is Help Welcome in editing this entry?

For some reason, I've been asked by a few people familiar with the problems on this Ramana Maharshi Wikipedia page to see if I can help improve it. Generally, people say it's a mess, but on reading it I don't think it's quite so bad, though the general concept and organization needs a lot of work. I'm no expert on either Ramana or Hinduism, but I do have a long background in both, and some decent writing skills. I can see a number of problems with the current text, and think it's possible to do a very extensive re-write that should improve the situation.

In general, I'm not dogmatic and I have no particular agenda except to create a more useful introduction to Ramana's life and teachings. I've followed the discussion here about characterizing Ramana as a Hindu, and I think it's self evident that he is, regardless of his personal eccentricities. Trying to introduce people to the concept of "atiashrami" in the opening paragraphs of a basic article like this is unnecessary and misleading. It belongs down below in a discussion of his ashram life (or possibly in a section dealing with his relationship to traditional Hindu orthodoxies). Likewise, characterizing him as a "non-dualist" is also misleading, since "Advaitic sage" means the same thing, but preserves the essential Hindu background of his Self-Realization. It sounds like a backdoor attempt to make him into a secular western non-dualist, which simply wasn't the case, though his teachings and followers certainly did help inspire that movement after his death.

I don't mind at all bowing to the needs and desires of the Indians here who are trying to preserve the essentially Hindu nature of Ramana's life and work, as long as they respect the clearly universal nature of Ramana's essential teachings (and even of Advaita Vedanta itself). Likewise, I think it's important to understand that a great many readers of this entry will be westerners who need to understand Ramana in terms that they can relate to, and who need to be made aware that Ramana himself did not see his teachings as confined to a Hindu perspective.

Anyway, I'd appreciate a little feedback if possible, and welcome any suggestions. I don't see evidence of much discussion about this article of late, and not much sign that things are going to change soon. So I will try to work on my own over the next few weeks to see what I can come up with. Before editing/posting, I'd like to get some feedback from interested parties. Is there a way to do that? I've never edited a Wikipedia article before.

Thanks,

Conradg1207 (talk) 22:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)Conradg

Dear Conradg1207, I, for one, would love to work together with you to improve the article in exactly the ways you mention. Welcome!! (Iddli (talk) 00:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Synonyms?

While it is true that Sri Ramana's relative is recorded as saying, "Arunachala is Tiruvannamalai" during that famous conversation when Sri Ramana learned Arunachala was an actual place he could travel to, Arunachala and Tiruvannamalai are not synonyms. Arunachala is the sacred mountain, and Tiru is the town. They are not used interchangeably. No one would say, "I am going into Arunachala to buy some vegetables," and nor would anyone say say, "I am doing pradakshina of Tiruvannamalai" (unless they really were walking all the way around the town for some reason!) Also, the phrase "after attaining spiritual awakening" is not something someone would say in English. Changing random phrases like this so they sound like awkward translations from another language is not helping the quality of the article which 1000Faces is doing an admirable job of cleaning up. (Iddli (talk) 16:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Wrong ISBN Number

The ISBN given against the book The Power of the Presence - Part 2 is wrong. Should be ISBN 0-9711371-0-2. --Ramprax (talk) 16:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Concerning the reversion of my recent edit, in which I wrote that Sri Ramana's guru was/is Arunachala

Can there be any doubt that Sri Ramana had a guru, and that that guru was Arunachala?

Please consider these verses, written by Sri Ramana:

19. Shine as my Guru, making me free from faults and worthy of Thy Grace, Oh Arunachala!

44. `Look within, ever seeking the Self with the inner eye, then will (it) be found.' Thus didst Thou direct me, beloved Arunachala!

45. (c) Seeking Thee in the Infinite Self I regained my own (Self), Oh Arunachala!

47. (b) I, by Thy Grace, am sunk in Thy Self, wherein merge only those divested of their minds and thus made pure, Oh Arunachala!

48. When I took shelter under Thee as my One God, Thou didst destroy me altogether, Oh Arunachala!

90. I spoke thus to Thee, because Thou art my Lord; be not offended but come and give me happiness, Oh Arunachala!

(Aksharamanamalai)

O Arunachala! In Thee the picture of the universe is formed, has its stay, and is dissolved; this is the sublime Truth. Thou art the Inner Self, who dancest in the Heart as ‘I’. ‘Heart’ is Thy name, O Lord!

(Arunachala Pancharatna)

I was born at holy Tiruchuzhi, the seat of Bhoominatheswara, renowned in the world, to the virtuous Sundara and his faithful wife Sundari. In order that Siva, the Absolute Consciousness, might shine forth and the Self flourish and that I might be rescued from the misery of the world and the snares of the despicable senses, the Lord of the Red Hill (Arunachala) raised me to His state.

(Arunachala Navamanimalai)

(Iddli (talk) 07:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC))

You're talking about a mountain, right? — goethean ॐ 17:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Goethean, the mountain Arunachala, considered by Sri Ramana to be Lord Shiva. (Iddli (talk) 16:59, 25 May 2008 (UTC))

There is no question that Ramana considered Arunachala to be his Guru. The question is, how do we present that to the reader? I say start writing it into the article and if it gets big, give it it's own section. Hohohahaha (talk) 20:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems that Simon D M has found an easy solution -- removing the "Guru" line from the template. For me, this is a good resolution. I can see that putting Arunachala there might be a bit confusing to someone unfamiliar with Sri Ramana's life and teachings, yet to put "None" was inaccurate. Including mention in the article that Sri Ramana considered Arunachala to be his Guru (with some explanation), as suggested by editor Hohohahaha, also sounds good. (Iddli (talk) 16:59, 25 May 2008 (UTC))

FWIW, I also agree with removing the Guru field. --1000Faces (talk) 22:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)