Talk:Ragnar Lodbrok

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[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- -- Thesocialistesq/M.Lesocialiste 01:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Icelandic heritage

Ragnar Lodbrok is an old Norse historical figure, only regarded as mythological due to lingering chauvinism in modern scholarship, which tends to be Ango-centric. That is not to say that there are not mythological tales woven around the figure of Lodbrok and his father, Sigurd Ring (who figures in Germanic myth)

Lodbrok is clearly identified in many family trees, in Icelandic heritage. Such documentation may be more readily found in Iceland than in Denmark, for various reasons. There is apparently an effort to downplay him in his home country of Denmark, likely due to the fact that the current Royalty of Denmark is not descended from his line. He was clearly one of many kings, although not minor, since he was considered king of Sweden as well as Denmark for a time.

Lodbrok is also part of an Icelandic oral tradition, which has died out in modern days, but which my grand-parents and their parents brought with them from Iceland in the late 1800s. My mother heard from her grandmother, etc., the stories of battles in which members of Lodbrok's family died.

He is said to have occupied the Royal seat at Lethre or Lejre, a spot which I believe appears today as a mound on which a great timber hall has been excavated. Icelandic genealogy shows this as his birthplace.

The mythological aspect lies in the many fanciful stories told about Lodbrok, which I suspect were embellished from half-truths to amuse children and adults alike. Some may be partially true, such as the story about his Royal Treasury, a chest guarded by a poisonous snake, which was tended by a faithful servant. The snake grew to be so large that only the servant dared approach.

I suspect very strongly that the modern Ladbroke family, which controls much of British casino and betting trade, may be descended from the Lodbrok son who remained in England and accepted marriage and an earldom or dukedom as the price for peace.

Please sign your comments.
Regnar Lodbrog (Danish form) is not "played down" in Denmark. In fact, we are very proud of him and don't like it when people refer to him and his sons as "Swedish" (even if it is just an anachronism).
Like all mythological figures, Regnar is derived from a historical figure for sure, probably the Viking chieftain Ragnar who headed the siege of Paris in the 840s.
As for your last paragraph, I'm not sure if you're kidding, but it certainly is an interesting theory... ;o) --dllu 14:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Add to article

Some of the information above seems like it can be incorporated into the article. The article could also use a picture or map to round it out, if someone could make or find one. --Ignignot 14:38, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

  • Thanks whoever found the picture. --Ignignot 15:44, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)
You're welcome!--Wiglaf 16:10, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] King of Sweden who qonqured Denmark? lol

How typical that user:Wiglaf make it like this. Both Ragnar Lodbrok and Sigurd Ring was Danes. They lived in Denmark they came from Denmark, they had Danish families and their sons and nephews was Danes. And sorry to say it wiglaf but Saxo Gramacius write his history of Danes, not swedes.

So if we gonna make witch nationality he was (witch not was important that time in Scandinavia). He was surely more Danish than Swedish.

Remember Sigurd Ring the father, who was king of Denmark ca. 800-810. Was a Nephew of the Danish king Harald Hildetand who put him on the Swedish throne. And Sigurd Ring only won(maybe or got offered) Zealand, not hole Denmark.

--Comanche cph 22:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Comanche, every single Scandinavian source but one, Hervarar saga, describes Ragnar's father Sigurd Ring as a king, or a Danish subking, of Sweden who became the ruler of Denmark after the Battle of Bråvalla. This means that according to ALL sources, Ragnar began as the king of BOTH Denmark and Sweden. Your edits on the other hand claim that Ragnar Lodbrok began as an earl of Denmark and later became the king of Sweden too. Let us see what The Tale of Ragnar's Sons says about what happened when he had ascended the throne: After the death of King Ring, his son Ragnar came to power in Sweden and Denmark. Then Ragnar Lodbrok loses Denmark and is apparently not interested in the territory but leaves it to his sons to conquer Denmark for themselves: Now when Ragnar's sons were fully grown, they went raiding far and wide. The brothers Eirek and Agnar were second in rank after Ragnar, and Ivar third with his younger brothers, and he was the leader because he was very clever. They conquered Zealand and Reidgotaland, Gotland, and Öland and all the smaller islands in the sea. Then Ivar set himself up at Lejre in Zealand with his younger brothers, but that went against the will of King Ragnar. According to the Tale of Ragnar's sons, Denmark was a fringe territory that Ragnar was not very interested in, but left to his sons to conquer for themselves. If you have an alternative theory, please cite sources and present them in the article.--Berig 15:48, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another theory

The fact that there are two main possible reigns for Ragnar could be down there being two different people with that name. There is a possibility that the first was the great grandfather of the second, with the first being the son of Sigurd Ring and the second the father of Ivar the Boneless. This would explain the gap of about 100 years between the dates suggested in this article of 750-794 and 860-865.

Deaþe gecweald 17:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ragnar Lodbrok, Danish (nordic) saga-hero.

Ragnar Lodbrok, dansk (nordisk) sagohjelte från vikingatiden, hvars historia sagopoesien helt och hållet ombildat. Den historiske E. var jarl hos danske konungen Hårek (814-854) och sändes af honom med en flotta på 120 skepp till Frankrike, seglade uppför Seine och härjade

Acording to: NORDISK FAMILJEBOK KONVERSATIONSLEXIKON OCH REALENCYKLOPEDI

INNEHÅLLANDE UPPLYSNINGAR OCH FÖRKLARINGAR OM MÄRKVÄRDIGA NAMN, FÖREMÅL OCH BEGREPP

Trettonde bandet Pontin - Ruete

Stockholm Expeditionen af Nordisk familjebok

Stockholm, Gernandts boktryckeri-aktiebolag, 1889 --Arigato1 12:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

This is English wikipedia. Please post in English. DR. Martin Hesselius 19:00, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where does it states that he was king of Sweden?

all the encyclopedia's i have looked up, dosent state that. --87.54.45.178 11:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I was not surprised to see that your IP is located in Denmark, because only Danish IPs appear to object to this (I wonder why). No one knows for sure whether Ragnar was Danish, or Swedish or Norwegian. One medieval source (a Frankish one IIRC) says that he was one of the jarls of a lord in Denmark named Hárekr (which does not tell us anything about his nationality, really), whereas most medieval Scandinavian sources say that he was a prince who inherited Denmark and Sweden from his father, the king of Denmark and Sweden, or conquered Denmark after having secured his reign in Sweden.--Berig 12:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
What sources? He is not regarded a king of Sweden according to any book about Swedish history that I have seen. /Pieter Kuiper 12:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that he has been claimed to have been a "historic king" of either Denmark or Sweden for very long time in history books. But that is besides the point here. Several medieval sources made him into a king of Denmark and Sweden, so that is relevant in the article.--Berig 13:29, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
If this guy is in the category:865 deaths, in my opinion he should not be in the category:Semi-legendary kings of Sweden. This blend of history and myth puts this article on the scholarly level of 17th century Gothicismus. /Pieter Kuiper 13:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I hope you understand that what is relevant in a Wikipedia article is notability and not whether it can be compared to Gothicismus. Ragnar Lodbrok's appearance in legendary sources is notable enough for inclusion.--Berig 13:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)