Template talk:R to disambiguation page

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[edit] Deletion

  • This template was listed on templates for deletion, but there was no consensus to delete. See the log. (archive entry) User:Ceyockey 02:48, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Is it used that much anyway? 67.81.33.18 21:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
    • On second thought, 200+ articles use it. 67.81.33.18 21:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{R to disambiguation page}} not functioning as intended

I'm not a fan of this particular template, because I hold that the need for it points to a deeper structural problem in Wikipedia. However,

I would like to report a problem with this template, because it does not perform as intended. This problem affects the hundreds of redirect pages that include this template.

The {{R to disambiguation page}} template clearly intends to display an informative message on any (disambiguation) page where it is used. The message is necessary and helpful, because it indicates to possible editors that things are a little more complicated than they might appear.

To see the text that this template intends to show, just follow the link {{R to disambiguation page}}. I'll also quote it here, as it exists today. (It probably needs to be edited for clarity as well.)

This is a redirect to a disambiguation page. This redirect is used by links that should always point to the disambiguation page, rather than be disambiguated. Therefore, this template generally should only appear on pages that have "(disambiguation)" in the title.

For more information, follow the category link.

When you follow a link to a page containing this template, obviously it doesn't make any difference, because you get redirected. For example, follow Table (disambiguation), and you end up viewing the retrieved contents of Table, a disambiguation page.

But, near the top of that redirected page, there is a little link to show the "actual" redirect page at "Table (disambiguation)", with redirection turned off. That link goes here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Table_%28disambiguation%29&redirect=no. Notice that the text is NOT displayed.

Now, if you start editing "Table (disambiguation)", and click on "Show preview" with edits or no edits at all (no need to Save the experiment), the helpful text shows up. The template actually does what it is supposed to, under this unlikely circumstance. The problem is, the message does not show under other circumstances when it is needed, namely simple viewing of the page.

I tried editing "Table (disambiguation)", but I could not make the template work properly. The text showed in Preview, but would not show in the Saved page.

When the {{R to disambiguation page}} tag appears after the #REDIRECT link, REDIRECT works (viewing with redirects enabled), but the message text is NOT displayed (viewing with redirects disabled). It is as if parsing stops as soon as the #REDIRECT link is processed.

However, when the {{R to disambiguation page}} tag appears BEFORE the #REDIRECT link, the message text IS displayed (viewing with redirects enabled) but then the REDIRECT is broken (viewing with redirects disabled).

I could not get the message to display and the redirect to both function in the same version of the page. (See futile series of attempts at [1].) (I was sure my first attempt would fix it -- If I try again, I'll remember to use the Sandbox.) Note, the template message usually displays while previewing edits, but then is gone when actually viewing the revised page.

Possible solutions include: 1) Repair the processing of #REDIRECT or {{R to disambiguation page}} so that the helpful message actually appears.

Note, the redirect page "Table (disambiguation)" is referenced by the EXAMPLE at Wikipedia->Disambiguation->Disambiguation pages->Page naming conventions->Generic topic.

Debugging templates is a little beyond me. I looked and I didn't see any possibility of a problem within {{R to disambiguation page}}. It might be a software problem inside MediaWiki, something none of us editors has control over. (Well, I could learn PHP and then start browsing the Open Source of this Free Software (deep voodoo), but then how to test or incorporate the patch?)

(I'm posting here for now, because I don't know where to post this kind of problem such that it might get attention from some able to actually do anything about it.) -Whiner01 (talk) 07:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The template wording is just plain wrong. Pages can be intentionally redirecting to dab pages, but have incoming links which need cleaning up. Furthermore, these often do not have "disambiguation" in the title. Example: Will power-->willpower.

I think it's actually a misunderstanding of what Category:Redirects to disambiguation pages is for. It's to help when cleaning up links to dab pages. --Kingbotk (talk) 13:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that the current wording (as last revised by Kingbotk) reflects a misunderstanding. Most links to disambiguation pages are erroneous (because they are ambiguous), and need to be cleaned up, as stated above. However, sometimes there is a need for a link to the disambiguation page as such—for example, some other article discusses the fact that the word "French" can refer to a nationality, an ethnic group, or a language; that link should point to the disambiguation page, not to one of the specific disambiguated meanings. This template, to be used (in the example) on French (disambiguation), is to identify the fact that the link to the disambiguation page is intentional, not mistaken, and should not be "fixed" by other users. --Russ (talk) 19:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)