Talk:Quantrill's Raiders

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Terrorists?

: It think it's highly inappropriate for this group to be included in the "American Terrorists" category.  Thoughts? Batman2005 04:24, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Why do you think it is inappropriate? Except for the state of war, they seem to fit the criteria listed here: Category:Terrorists. -Will Beback 05:50, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I could point out literally THOUSANDS of war criminals that fit the exact discription listed on that page, who are not considered terrorists at all. Quantrills Raiders should be listed in a "War Criminals" category if one exists, but to throw them into the same lot as Osama Bin Laden? The state of war is indeed highly important, they were outside the scope of their conventional warfare as a militia during a state of war. Additionally, many of their tactics are what we now call "Special Operations." i.e. striking quickly, ambushes, shoot and move, etc. Just my thoughts, I think the terrorists category should be left open for men such as Bin Laden, Richard Reid, and the like. 4.224.90.149 18:49, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The key aspect of terrorism, as opposed to special operations, is targeting civilians. Category:War criminals would probably not be suitable since most "war crimes" were not designated until the Geneva Conventions. If 9/11 brought the world into a state of war, and if that state of war means that actions are no longer terrorism, then Richard Reid would not qualify either. Osama bin Laden is not known to have personally performed any action attacking civilians, to the best of my knowledge. -Will Beback 22:35, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Exactly why I didn't mention that targeting civilians was a part of special operations. If you're arguing that Osama Bin Laden isn't a terrorist i'm guessing you're going alone in that one, but the simple fact is that when you compare Quantrill with Bin Laden, or Quantill with Al-Zawahiri...you're comparing apples to oranges. Quantrills actions today, would be prosecuted as war crimes, as they were a militia group led by Quantrill (a confederate soldier). Sure, the geneva convention outlined what we consider today to be war crimes, Quantrills actions today would be war crimes. If we're going to call this man and his followers terrorists, why don't we label Lt. Calley and his men terrorists as well? Did they not target hundreds of innocent vietnamese? I think includig him and his group (Quantrill) in a War Criminals category would be more appropriate. 4.224.162.51 23:30, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Is targetting civilians a part of special ops? If not then the comparison doesn't apply. Quantrill's raider were not part of the military, unlike the war criminal you mention. They were civilians, attacking civilians, just like the terrorists you mention. -Will Beback 23:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The most frequently-used term for the raiders is "guerillas". I'll see if there's a category for that. -Will Beback 02:58, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Check your facts, Quantrill was a Captain in the confederate Army. My comparison to present day special forces was that SOME of the tactics, which i said in my first post about the subject...SOME of the tactics that they used, which at the time were considered dirty, are presently used by special forces soldiers. The guerillas category is MUCH more appropriate than the Terrorists category was. Good Discussion. 4.224.90.165 04:08, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

-American Cavalier

In fact they do not meet all the standards imposed on terrorist category. JAG has numerious caveats and opinions for the Geneva Convention rulings which limit it's breadth and scope. If it weren't every bomber crew during WWII in the allied forces would be a terrorists as would the majority of Allied soldiers. To limit Quantrill's culpability as a terrorist we have: Officer in a unit of a belligerent power, fighting behind enemy lines is no longer considered illegal, attacking property can be legitimate for reprisal or if the property is used for military purposes, the Confederate government considered the actions of the Yankee raiders as initiating illegal acts which were duly responded in kind, the Confederate government of Missouri never surrendered and through it's Partisans controlled most of Missouri even though the Union government of Missouri claimed the foward edge of the battlefield had pushed regular confederate units far to the south.

[edit] Quantrill's death

The wiki page for Quantrill himself describes him as having been shot in May, as opposed to June in this document. Clarification?

[edit] NPOV dispute

80.166.132.211 wrote the following under the Origins section. I have added an NPOV-section alert to the section and moved his text here:

NOTE FROM READER: This article is strongly subjective, and fail to assertain a professional objective view at historical events. I would urge a member of Wikipedia to look into this article, and repair damages.

To students or other who would use this article for professional or educational means, it would be wise to find a better source than this article. The sections of the article below this entry, seems to be objective, and can be used.

--C-squared 01:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)