Talk:Punk fashion

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Mid This article is on a subject of mid-importance within fashion.

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Start-class on an article with possibly A-class level comprehensiveness because there are no footnotes. Mid-importance within fashion for its continuing influence and historical importance. Daniel Case 15:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Image

can we get an image/illustration? --Smooth Henry 20:18, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

There are a lot of different types of punks so there is not an image for all. That would be stereotyping in a way. I will try and get pictures of all different types of punks listed. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 14:59, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Good. Johnny Rotten would be a good candidate for a picture to be put into the 70s punk section. For 80s hardcore "anti-fashion" I'd pick either Henry Rollins or Ian McKaye.

[edit] Red laces

i've heard red laces are considered national front? - I've heard the opposite...that red laces are considered communist...

Removed the phrase "The most blistering punk music" from the Punks against punk fashion section in favor for "Hardcore Punk," which is actually the genre those bands fall into.

[edit] Stop changing stuff

Stop changing the "pop punk" section, please - Chucks, ties with t-shirts and as belts, black-and-bright-colours hair dye and the others listed are all aspects of modern pop-punk fashion. If you have a problem with the section, post it here; otherwise I will seek semi-protection. Also, I think images are certainly needed. I know images of Sid Vicious are hard to get (a pity since his exemplary expression of the "punk look" was the only reason he even got in the band), but I think Johnny Rotten would do well. Ramones for torn clothing and leather jackets and Siouxie for swastika and bondage gear would probably be good images too. Ian McKaye would do well for hardcore anti-fashion. There must be an image of someone in a spike-and-patches kutte, torn jeans, mohawk and Crass shirt somewhere we can use. Seriously. And a picture of a NOFX fan or something would do for skate punk. --Switch 14:27, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] categories

Jaymz Allyn: Hey, heres a great Idea, Stop trying to drop us all into a category. It's articles like this that make all the little posers out there think that they can be a punk if they listen to everything that they read. Look, straight forward here, Punk is a culture,,,not a Fasion. You can't drop everything into a category. I am not a fan of pop-punk or Emo, but I tend to ocasionally wear a tie or my Chuck Taylors. I do skateboard almost relegiously, but I don't wear dreadlocks or brand logos. Personally, this article offends me; Whatever happened to individuality?


If you think punk isn't about fashion, you're a self-righteous dick. also, the article specifically states that most punks don't follow only one dress code, and mix it up. Read before you get pissy about something. --Switch 10:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


Yeah, I saw your links to GoodCharlotte. I think your whole article is crap. Why don't you add a section for me while your at it? Define this. *moons the self-righteous Bitch"

Punk'77 era can give some idea about outfits. From the other side, I ain't consider metro punk a style, though.

As the Infa Riot lyrics says : "All you boys in jeans and boots, spiky hair from the 70s roots" I still remember of those Jetta boots and slim cut jeans a'la 70s, 80s punk rock. By the way, it comes back to fashion in the USA. I see it on the streets some days. It also worth to take a look on Iggy's slim cut pants. About my clothes, I often sport a bandana on my skull or tied around my neck. I have a Charged GBH style mohawk and spike it good for the shows. Also I wear two jeans at a time with some safety pins attached to it. This double setup gives a good protection when I do the pogo dance and slide or fell.

 An old picture from the Blank'77 show, venue Albany, NY2oo5. TORN black&blue jeans, Pistols T-shirt, sport kicks and that time no mohawk yet.

Winter 18:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC) [[1]] [[2]]

[edit] Johnny Rotten's shirt

Stop changing the article. Those shirts were sold at Sex to the early apolitical punk scene, and were meant merely to be offensive, much like the swastika shirts made famous by Sid Vicious that were also sold there. Regardless of Lydon's political beliefs, the shirt is a prime example of the deliberately offensive garments popular at the time. --Switch 07:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poser? Is that NPOV?

Under Skate Punks, the section that says: "Skate punks also generally wear branded skate shoes—such as Fallen shoes, Circa, or eS footwear—and generally avoid the cheap brands—such as Airwalk or Vans—which are seen as poser brands and are not very effective for real skaters" seems POV to me. It could at least have a source. --Zagsa 01:26, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Punks may wear....Punks may spike....Punks may...

Why is it every sentence in this paragraph starts with the word punk(s)? Seems like it goes against basic writing

Punks seek to outrage propriety with the highly theatrical use of style. Punk clothing adapts existing objects for aesthetic effect: previously ripped clothes are held together by safety pins or wrapped with tape, written on with marker or defaced with paint; a black bin liner bag (garbage bag) might become a dress, shirt or skirt. Leather, rubber and vinyl clothing are also common, possibly due to its implied connection with transgressive sexual practices, such as bondage and S&M. Punks wear tight "drain pipe" jeans, "brothel creepers" shoes, t-shirts with risqué images, and possibly a leather motorcycle jacket (á la The Ramones). Punks style their hair to stand in spikes, cut it into "Mohawks" or other dramatic shapes, and color it with vibrant, unnatural hues. Punks use safety pins and razor blades as jewelry, including using safety pins for piercings. Punks sometimes flaunted taboo symbols such as the Nazi swastika or Iron Cross, although most modern punks are staunchly anti-racist and subsequently may wear a crossed-out swastika patch. They may also wear eyeliner (boys and girls). [citation needed] Punk style was influenced by clothes sold in Malcolm McLaren's shop SEX. McLaren has credited this style to his first impressions of Richard Hell while he was in New York managing the The New York Dolls.

Seems like some one took some bullet points, stuck them together and called it a paragraph. Perhaps some one could reword it? --66.222.240.194 21:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC) Jay

[edit] Whoops

I accidentally marked this edit as minor because I forgot that I changed the section title to "traditional punk". So I did more than just copyedit. Sorry. I did that because it seems less confusing than "'straight' punk", which could be confused with straight (as in the sexual orientation) or straight edge. Ungovernable ForceThe Wiki Kitchen! 06:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hardcore fashion

I have recently started a page on the current hardcore (heavy metal) scene. The hardcore fashion described here would be better suited to describing that scene. till somebody comes up with a paragraph to describe contemporary hardcore PUNK fashion i'll be removing the hc section as it has no bearing on punk fashion.

Oh, I guess you did give a reason. Next time, be sure to direct people here in your edit summary. I don't think modern hardcore is really punk, but others do so for now at least, I think it should stay in. I don't care that much though. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 04:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Just because you started another article doesn't mean you should delete the section from this article. Today's hardcore, definitely originally came out of hardcore punk, so it's relevant in this article. Besides, I've never heard anyone call Hardcore a form of heavy metal, despite the fact that many of today's hardcore bands have metal influences. The hardcore (heavy metal) has no references, and is full of point of view. It need a lot of work (and a name change) to bring it up to encyclopedic standards.Spylab 13:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab




_____Just wondering about the inclusion of "Emo", as many punks try to distance themselves from this__________________________________________________________________


You know what i think Emo is the conclusion of a way you pend you life, because you are completely worhtless when you have a very great life and many people who care about you.


EMOS CANT SPELL!!!

EMOS HATE CHAVS!!!

IM NOT EMO!!!

YOU PROBABLY WANT TO BE!!!

[edit] Other languages versions

There's a huge amount of other languages' versions of this article, but none are listed here. May someone add them? (eg, by taking the links from the de.wikipedia). --Pfc432 00:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suicidals

I know it is considered to be an "obscure trend", but there should be a expanded section or at least new article about Suicidals. This is about all the information I could find and it doesn't even refer to them as being Suicidals:

"Another example would be some punks in California, who have moddeled themselves on Cholo's. This look involves wearing brightly coloured bandanas and plaid flannel shirts. Shaven heads are also common in this style. A good example of this would be Californian punk band Suicidal Tendencies."

I know this pretty much covers it in describing their fashion choice, but there should be more information on the subculture. I know Suicidals as a violent crew (some have described it as a gang) that has a fierce devotion to bands like Suicidal Tendencies, Beowulf, Excel, and many other Venice, California bands. I have heard they have associations with various Surrenos gangs. I would edit it myself, but most of what I can provide would fall under "original research" as there aren't any widely available sources on the internet or in books. There was a paragraph in "American Hardcore", but that's about it. I know it may not be relevant to this article in particular, but I feel that the movement was and is still relevant enough to have some more information or an article on Wikipedia. Maybe this would fit better in the punk subculture article, but maybe not. There has to be something on this site about "punk gangs" like the Venice Suicidals, Beowulf Boys and Circle One. Can I get some thoughts?

ZAchAtTacK 4:57, 17 May 2007

I agree with all that you have said. It would be much appreciaated if you could help expand this part of the article. I think part of the reason it is hard to find info on this is precisly because it is an "Obscure Trend" - D-Raven 66.15.146.252 04:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

fdkjhdjkZAchAtTacK 05:02, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] How many of you are punks?

This article is incredibly inaccurate, and I can see why. The vast majority of wikipedia editors are obssesive computer users who know absolutely nothing about punk other than what they see at Hot Topic, on Fox News, or in books from Barnes and Noble. For one thing, the all-black style of political punks(myself, for instance) was ignored until I added it. Non punks need to stop acting like they know anything about punk.

And, by the way: It's not dead, so don't write these articles like an autopsy.

Skrayl (talk) 04:03, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

  • The so-called "political punk" style was ignored because there is no specific group called "political punks", so there is no particular style associated with being a political punk. If you mean anarcho-punk, then there is already a section about that.Spylab (talk) 15:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
  • See Anti-Flag. Someone needs to make an article about political punk. Or maybe just ignore it. I'm reverting your edit. Also almost everything in this article has been outdated since 2001, I'd say. A large amount of punk was destroyed, and then reconstrucuted in a different way around 1999-2003.
  • See punk ideologies (and Wikipedia:Citing sources while you're at it). There are many types of punks that are political. There is no specific category called "political punk", and there is no specific style associated with that nonexistant category. I have reverted your uncited and factually inaccurate edit. Spylab (talk) 17:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Spylab, are you a punk? I would like to indicate wikipedia: Ignore all rules, in order to point out that with things like punk it's best to trust instinct rather than soruces, as those sources will be societies inaccurate opinions about punk. For example, nowhere in any article about punk are it's many internal conflicts mentioned. Why? There so obvious to anyone who is a punk. There not mentioned becuase of silly citation issues. Skrayl (talk) 02:45, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia: Ignore all rules states: "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it." They key point is "improving or maintaining", which is not done by adding uncited and factually inaccurate content. Spylab (talk) 18:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey there mate. I was a punk as a teenager (just a few years ago) and I still associate with plenty of punks. Just to let you know, yeah, there are punks around here; you might want to drop Murderbike (talk · contribs) or The Ungovernable Force (talk · contribs) a line. I think they're more involved in the punk subculture than I am.
To address some of your specific concerns: Yes, the article is pretty bad. The section on early punk fashion is okay, but the rest is pretty terrible.
There is no "political punk" style of dress. There is not even any "political punk" group. Let me clarify: Does "political punk" include Nazi punks? Leftists but not anarchists? Does it include Green Day? Do they dress like the Angelic Upstarts? The Clash? The Jam? NOFX? All political punk bands, but all jarringly different in terms of sound, dress and ideology. What is a specific group with a specific dress style is anarcho-punk, simple, aggressive and often experimental punk rock with an anarchist worldview, the fashion mainly being androgynous black militaristic clothing. In dealing with Anti-Flag you might better focus on the "new punk" phenomenon, the bastard child of Bad Religion and Refused.
The stuff about "those sources [being] societies inaccurate opinions about punk" are either your delusions or misunderstanding of the NOR policy. There are plenty of books written about punks, and even by punks, that you can get your hands on if you want to improve the article. Reliable doesn't mean mainstream (and nor does mainstream mean reliable), especially where counterculture is concerned. There are lots of books, for example, that compile articles from zines into histories of bands or scenes; some of these are even available from major retailers. There are books written by punks all over the place. Some photographers have even released books of photos of punks, as a case study in dress, with discussion. What could be better? Admittedly the majority of these focus on the '70s, but there are recent ones too - there's at least one on Umeå hardcore photos. There are sources you can cite.
If you don't like the article - fix it! Borrow some books on punk subculture or on subculture fashion from a local library. Go through old zines. Look up internet articles. If you can afford it, you could even buy some of the specialist books. Anyone can edit, and anyone can contribute to a future of free culture and knowledge. "Anyone" means you. ~ Switch (✉✍☺☒) 06:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] tell me...

in what is currently considered punk and emo fashion,a key element has been forgotten in this aritcle.tux,tux undershirts,and tie have been a critical part of both punk and emo since their inception.cant beleieve so many people missed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.233.155.182 (talk) 00:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Original Style

The original punk fashion was prior to the London look. The New York scene of lower Manhattan was the original punk fashion with groups like Television, Blondie, The Ramones, Patti Smith and Talking Heads.

The kids of New York at the time had little money and mod clothing was easy to get hold of so much of the clothing was adapted from the mod image with people trying to be original with what they had.

McLaren recreated what he saw in New York but mostly drawing from and expanding on Richard Hell's look and ignoring the many other kids.

Quote " No one had any money so image was about creating a personal style with what they got. They would wear ripped up shirts, denim jeans, traditional leather and some mod clothing as this was easy to get in New York.''

Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood did NOT copy tearing t-shirts off of Richard Hell or John Lydon. When the shop was Let it Rock they would print tees with early Rock and Roll (Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis) and 60's Garage Bands (Screaming Lord Sutch), and travel to revival concerts, set up a booth, and sell the Let it Rock shirts in the Parking Lot. This led to them having a huge surplus of the band shirts, so when the shop became Too Fast to Live... they begin to rip and tear the tees, put in zips, soil them with hair dye, put motorcycle badges and patches, and plastic pockets with pictures of Glamour Models in them so the shirts would go with their new Rocker look like the Venus and ROCK Bones shirt. They even converted tees into panties. John Lydon admits he didn't come to the shop until it was SEX, and Richard Hell wasn't performing in 1971 when Malcolm first went to New York, so he couldn't have seen it then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.203.248 (talk) 22:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)