Talk:Pumpernickel

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Contents 1 POV 1.1 Fartdemon? 2 This is a UK thing? 3 Another possible reason for the name 4 Flour

[edit] POV

I can't shake the feeling that whoever contributed the bulk of this entry is not terribly fond of pumpernickel. The fact is that many, many people like pumpernickel (as evidenced by the fact that it is produced in not insignificant amounts); Perhaps we could get some more German contributors to this article? We already know how the Americans and Brits like their foamy, spongy bread. Rhombus 17:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Some of the info in this article seems like opinion, I live in Ohio in the Midwest and buy Pumpernickel every other week, it is not a specialty or unusual, it's just there in the bakery seciont 75.6.26.37 01:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)Steve from Ohio.

[edit] Fartdemon?

"The word "pumpernickel" derives from the Old High German words "pumpern", to fart, and "Nickel", a demon or goblin." Somehow I find this hard to believe... 67.82.95.105 19:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed! Which is why I deleted the passage. If you check most etymology authorities (i.e., dictionaries) the word is listed as having unknown origins (see, for example, the Oxford English Dictionary) --128.151.144.59 14:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

None of this etymology business seems to have verification...here's what OED says:

[G., also {dag}pompernickel (in use 1663); also (earlier) a lout, a booby. Origin uncertain.]  Folk etymologies should be left out, unless you can cite references.

Carl.bunderson 17:59, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

In The Language Instinct, by Steven Pinker, the second etymology was directly discussed - it had been admitted as being a fabrication by a columnist, making a joke at the expense of his readers. The first reference I found to the passage is on this page: http://ling.kgw.tu-berlin.de/lexicography/data/MAVENS.html 24.62.181.249 21:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course, we now know -- see Etymology section -- that the columnists did not invent the story. Which makes Pinker's story more complex. William Rubel 00:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

"Fart Bread" is a common usage in Germany according to friends of mine as, well, they eat a lot of bread types that makes you fart. "Puxbrot" is the term my friends use, "pux" being a slang word for fart and brot being German for bread. It's true, German pumpernickel is a puxbrot and very yummy too. :-) --58.179.163.21 01:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm german and have never heard the term "puxbrot" or the supposedly slang word "pux". Not saying it doesn't exist, but it's definitely not widespread. 89.246.30.2 09:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This is a UK thing?

I've just had to come and look this up here because, in 30 years of living in the UK, I've never seen it or found out what it was. I may just be shockingly ignorant or living in the wrong bits of the UK; can anyone reassure me? Vashti 21:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

You may just be looking in the wrong place. Imported German pumpernickel is common enough here in Australia, for example, but most shops place it amongst the cakes section for some reason and not with the other breads. I love the stuff and buy it at my local shop at least once a week.

[edit] Another possible reason for the name

I've heard storys from books suggesting that Pumpernickel is just a merge of the phrse "Pain pour Nicole". Nicole being Napoleon's horse. The story was that durning a time of limited food Napoleon's soldiers were always grumbling that even though there was little bread for them there was alway's plenty of bread for Nicole, or "Pain pour Nicole". And so the rough rye bread that they had so little of was given the name pumpernickel. Thats just one possiblilty on how pumpernickel got it's name. Any comments? --Malco4 13:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC) Read the entry. The Nugent reference was published long before Napolean was Napolean. William Rubel 00:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flour

Early English sources always refer to a coarse rye flour. By the mid-eighteenth century the Germans were using -- not everyplace -- but someplaces -- a complex milling system that the French called "mouture economique." This system entailed multiple regrindings -- with sifting between each grinding -- to break the grain into its discrete parts. Thus, one started with a very coarse grind, sifted, and then sent the grain back to be ground a little finer, and be sifted again. It is possible that pumpernickel was made -- or was sometimes made -- with one or another streams of flour derived from this complex milling process. The Germans were known to regrind up to nine times against the French four or five.

It might be helpful if someone who was an expert on early German milling would contribute to this piece.

Modern pumpernickel often includes whole rye berries. These tend to be mixed into dough made with a fine rye flour. Coarse rye meal is not a commercial product -- at least in the United States.

In this, and other food articles, it would be helpful if we could keep track of the time period we are talking about as foods changes. By seeking out the details of historic practice we can sometimes discover ideas that have been lost -- but that we might want to bring back into the recipe. William Rubel 00:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)