Talk:Prostitution in Germany

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[edit] Trafficking

I would contend that, with the exception of Hamburg and Berlin, the trafficking in women as described in the Trafficking section is misrepresented. Only in the appartment scene is it even possible for foreign women to work without accurate and complete papers. That means that they need to be in possesion of their passports.

Most of the trafficking that is happening is at the knowledge of the women that they will be working in prostitution and the payment is made by them for this service. It used to be common for the traffickers to arrange a marriage to a German to get legal status. With the admission of many new countries into the EU this is outdated. The fee the "husband" would receive was often in the 10,000 - 20,000 DM range. these girls would often give their legal papers to another girl fromt heir home country to work a legitmate job under, while they were working as prostitutes.

[edit] Friedman

> In 2003, Michel Friedman, popular TV talk show host ... he resigned his posts. > Also in 2003, well-known artist and art professor Jörg Immendorff ... his terminal illness.

it is misleading to mention this two cases of cocaine abuse in connection with the (il)legality of prosituition. While this occurances where connected with illegal prostituition, both men have had nothing to do with this aspect. OTOH both cases are highly relevant about the moral situation of prostitutes and their customers in Germany (and illegal drugs too).


Well, these examples are not in the section discussing the (il)legality of prostitution in Germany, so I would argue that they belong where they are. I'll clarify that the men were only punished for the drug. AxelBoldt 19:59, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of traineeships

Does anyone know the background to this story about the lack of traineeships in German brothels in the English-language media? Was the reason the exemption wasn't granted because the government wants to put pressure on brothels? --Robert Merkel 13:05, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

I believe the main reason is bureaucratical: the ministry didn't want to have to precisely define the exempt businesses, and they were probably afraid that other businesses would ask for exemptions as well. In any case, so far the law is just a draft and hasn't been voted on. AxelBoldt 12:40, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Removal

I removed two sentences:

Generally the tighter the local regulations, the more power have the pimps and the more abusive is the whole business -- because the restrictions increase the competition between the women so that those without pimps will be driven away by the pimps of the others.

This claim is not supported by the cited literature published by the German government. Pimp pressure is low in Munich and high in Hamburg. In Berlin, pimp pressure on foreign women is high but on German women is low.

(again increasing pimp power, since they often intimidate the unwilling customer into paying).

Pimps do generally not participate directly in the prostitute-customer relationship; they just induce or force the woman to work and to hand over the money afterwards. AxelBoldt 12:40, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

I just removed the first statement again. AxelBoldt 18:48, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] East vs West

This article sort of skims over the period of 1945-1990. I think more detail should be added, especially with regards to the differences between East and West Germany's attitudes towards prostitution.

[edit] Soccer World Cup 2006 & Prostitution

The German government has informed the world that tens of thousands of prostitutes will be crowding around busy sporting stadiums, where the soccer world cup games will be held. (Most likely in Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt.) The number of prostitutes is estimated at tens of thousands! " The above edit was made to the article -- it doesn't fit into the article in its current form, and i don't know enough to the article to integrate it. what do you guys think? Toss it? TastemyHouse 05:29, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Sure, toss it; the German government hasn't done anything like that. A good report is here: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/11/18/world_cup/ . Basically:

  • There were plans in Dortmund to erect stalls for prostitution in anticipation of the soccer world cup, but they have since been abandoned.
  • A women's organization has started a campaign to inform world cup visitors about trafficking and forced prostitution.
  • A big new brothel opened a couple of months ago in Berlin; whether that's related to the soccer world cup is anybody's guess.

AxelBoldt 15:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Trafficking section

"The trafficking in women from Eastern Europe is organized by gangs from that same region."

--> This theory is not supported by yearly police reports (BKA - Lagebericht Menschenhandel)

The image of 'the perpetrator' as foreigner in disourses on trafficking has been analysed as racist by severall authors and should not be reproduced like that. Maybe the information could be replaced by something more differentiated?

I agree; we can simply state that 60% of the accused were foreigners, and another 8% were foreign-born Germans. AxelBoldt 22:41, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

"Women are often unwilling to testify against their oppressors"

--> they are also in most cases unable to act as witnesses as they do not have the needed information

The following was copied from user talk:AxelBoldt:

AxelBoldt,

I don't understand your rationale for removing my numerous additions to what goes on in FKK clubs. I've been to many FKK clubs there and what I wrote is from personal experience. What I said about "unlimited foreplay" is true. In fact, I am friends with a guy who has a company leading tours from the U.S. to FKK clubs six or seven times a year, and this is what all the customers will tell you. I notice you also deleted the information I gave about the men being given towels to wear, the fact that some of the girls are as beautiful as in Playboy, the fact that session fee doesn't run until you take the girl to the room, etc. What are the reasons for these other deletions?

--Liem

Hello,

  • towel/robe situation is mentioned
  • "Playboy quality" language is not neutral and smells like advertising
  • unlimited foreplay/session starts at the room: that information is misleading at best; see this FAQ which emphasizes repeatedly that one should not waste a woman's time on the couch and one can be charged for this in extreme cases. Publically advertising "unlimited foreplay" here will only get people into trouble.

Cheers, AxelBoldt 13:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Urban myth of cut benefits

That was brit tabloids. http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp